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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-20-2012 03:54 PM
69 widetrack It looks great, again, happy it all worked out for you and have a great holiday season as well.

Ray
12-20-2012 03:49 PM
carolinacustoms Just wanted to give you an update. I sprayed the rest of the white on the 56 today. It covered with 2 coats like it should and turned out great. I attached a picture it really turned out well. Thanks again for the help and information. Happy Holidays to you and your family as well.
12-19-2012 08:33 PM
69 widetrack Excellent, there are many PPG products that I've become fond of and that other major brands don't have in their arsenal...Like the Vibrance Collection, Radiance and Liquid Crystal. All it takes is one jobber to not honor or respect his customer to do irreparable damage. Kudos to your jobber for stepping up. Just on a side note...did you mention that you asked about your problem on this forum? It would be interesting to know.

As far as the rep goes that told you it was because of lowering VOC's, well that sticks in my craw somewhat but I'm young enough to get over it...I hope he's young enough to learn that what he said was a stupid, un-thought out comment and should be chastised for being an idiot. Sorry for coming down on the individual but if he makes an off the cuff comment like that, he better be able to back it up...and stupidity is pretty hard to support.

I feel I'm fairly knowledgeable as well...but understand that the day I stop learning is the day I stop breathing and always have room to learn more and improve.

Again, thanks for starting the thread and hope you and your family have a great holiday season.

Ray
12-19-2012 07:25 PM
carolinacustoms Yes my supplier had enough integrity to replace the paint free of charge and even included reducer to replace what was used in the bad mix. Thanks again to both of you for your help I deeply appreciate it. I am experienced but I do know that there is always someone who knows more than I do
12-19-2012 03:53 PM
69 widetrack No need to feel that you jumped the gun, I for one appreciate that you made people aware of a problem and if more end user's did the same thing it may keep manufacturer's more honest...As Barry K mentioned in a previous post, not all major manufacturer's are honest 100% of the time....Thank you and i am happy that your situation was resolved.

I did get a reply from one of the emails I sent out last night to someone that may have been able to shed some light on this situation and the individual that replied had no knowledge of the situation that you had mentioned. I do believe this person and it may have been a local problem...but unless these problems are exposed, some people may continue to use a product and believe whatever comes out of a reps mouth without any verification...In any case, you have been told something that wasn't the truth. The lowering of VOC's did not cause the paint to not cover well...I hope the jobber replaced the paint that you purchased with the defective "Binder"?????

All the best to you and Thank You for posting.

Ray
12-19-2012 03:19 PM
carolinacustoms Oh and for the 3-4 month timeline, I had them pull up all the paint I had purchased in that period. All of them were metallic colors and were noted highly transparent so like I stated earlier I guess I just jumped the gun a little bit when this white would not cover. Appologies and gratitude extended
12-19-2012 03:16 PM
carolinacustoms Ok guys I appreciate all of the responses and maybe this will help with things. My supplier, like I said is one of the large franchise stores. Apparently after getting several complaints from just about everyone, they and a couple other of their named stores in the area started to check up on some things. Turns out they claim to have a binder problem. All of the stores in question received a shipment of mixing supplies around the same time and apparently they are blaming a "bad batch" of binder. I did not get clarification if it was real old or what the suspected problem was, but I did get a new mix of paint from the same supplier in the same brand and color and it is covering like normal. So I appologize if I ruffled any feathers about PPG. When I compared the new mix to the old there was quite a difference in the in can appearance and a big difference in the spray out and flash. When I opened the original color today it had been sitting for 2 days untouched. It looked like it had been sitting for years on a shelf, the pigment was all scattered in the can in a maze of milky liquid........ So I dont know maybe they are BSing me but whatever the problem was is not happening with the mix they gave me today. Thanks again for all the information
12-19-2012 06:58 AM
69 widetrack OK Barry re-read and your talking about a base coat....Sorry
12-19-2012 06:57 AM
69 widetrack I think I know the paint...was it an acrylic enamel?
12-19-2012 06:53 AM
BarryK Very interesting about no price increase...is that for all the majors or just PPG? I was a rep for many years and no price increase would be a first, to my memory an annual price increase was like Easter, it comes every year, just not on the same calender date...is this a push for everybody switching to water born? A product that the refinish companies have a great deal of money invested into launching and are hoping that universal government legislation will make it mandatory....In Canada we had many end dates for solvent based products postponed and postponed until finally January 1 2011 it became reality.[/QUOTE]

Ray, I don't remember when this started but I want to say about 15 years ago, one major did it first in the USA and the base that I really liked went from two coat coverage to 3-6 and when you *****ed, the book response given to the jobbers was, then buy our premium line. That company in a short time probably lost 30% market share real fast BUT, then the others followed.

Bean counters, do not paint!
12-19-2012 06:43 AM
69 widetrack Agree with everything you said Barry...I've spent some time thinking about this and can't see 3 different suppliers doctoring a product to improve a bottom line....and for a rep to say that it's because of lowering VOC's and still using the same reducer???? I've used Pro Spray and again, your right...it sprays well, respectable coverage and I'd almost say it's the AMC of the automotive refinish world....it has all the same problems that the big guys have, just not the following of die hard customers...yet.

Very interesting about no price increase...is that for all the majors or just PPG? I was a rep for many years and no price increase would be a first, to my memory an annual price increase was like Easter, it comes every year, just not on the same calender date...is this a push for everybody switching to water born? A product that the refinish companies have a great deal of money invested into launching and are hoping that universal government legislation will make it mandatory....In Canada we had many end dates for solvent based products postponed and postponed until finally January 1 2011 it became reality.
12-19-2012 06:26 AM
BarryK Kind of funny but talking to 50-130 people a day on the tech line, I hear the same thing with coverage on all the brands.
Let me just add two things for you to think about.
1) making a base coat, 50-90% of the cost depending on the color is the cost of tint. Cut back 10% on the tint and it goes right to the bottom line as profit and the best part, no price increase was announced.
2) It is not your jobber as it would be suicide for him to add extra binder, only thing they could really do is cut the volume in the can 5-10% and hope you don't notice, for extra profit.
3) The Voc answer is pure BS, to meet the lower VOC's you will find those paints are normally thicker and a change of solvents.

If I was looking for the best bang for the dollar as a shop, I would be looking at the following.
Metal Lux
Wanda
Prospray.
Matrix
Transtar low VOC.

All of these have been time tested and matches like any other paint line, good but like all lines you will always have a few colors that don't cut it.
12-19-2012 12:09 AM
carolinacustoms And let me correct myself, I said local PPG rep. I think it was the PPG rep. I talked to the supplier and he called someone and transferred me to who he referred to as "the rep" and we had a converstaion over the phone. Now that I think of it the man I spoke with may very well have been the comany rep for the supplier. I will try to get a contact number or email for the PPG rep and get back with you on that response. I appologise for any confusion but this just occured to me and I wanted to clarify myself and not falsely acuse anyone.
12-19-2012 12:04 AM
carolinacustoms Yes, we have changed nothing about the paint, reducers, clear, primer, or the process we go through when painting. The supplier is the same etc., nothing has changed except the coverage of the paint.
12-18-2012 08:40 PM
69 widetrack The one thing that I can't understand is if your using the same DT line of reducers and your using twice as much paint, how is the PPG rep justifying it by saying that you have less coverage because of PPG lowering VOC's...It doesn't make any logical sense...you are using the same reducers, correct?
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