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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-31-2012 04:29 PM
0trbo4myCHEVUICK pretty sure im going to be tearing the short block down and decking it... The 425$short block just became 525$ assembly required :/
12-31-2012 04:10 PM
techinspector1
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0trbo4myCHEVUICK View Post
well measured with a dial caliper and got .041-.044 on all cylinders. The machinest looked in the book and that would give me just under 9:5compression with a 59cc head. Not really sure which way I will go just yet.

The machinest says it will be fine and run it as it is.

If I knew for sure I could handle building the short block I would take it apart, get it decked for 100 bucks put it back together and be done with it. I dont want over 9:8 compression though. Im already at 9:5 with them .042.
Maybe I'm being overly simplistic when I say you have two choices......

A. Do it right.
B. Don't do it right.

Any hot rodder who knows what he's talking about will tell you that you'll be better off with a higher SCR and a tight squish than you will with a lower SCR and a wider squish.

This blurb is from Chevy High Performance magazine, but you can find the same verbage coming from any knowledgable engine builder.......

"So what are the benefits of all this squishing and quenching? The benefits are small, but often important. Pump-gas engines that run on the ragged edge of detonation, for example, can greatly benefit from a tighter piston-to-head clearance to reduce rattle. That sounds contradictory since increasing compression should lead to increased detonation. All the engine builders we spoke to mentioned that tightening the quench (reducing the piston-to-head clearance) to get it under 0.050 inch will increase the static-compression ratio, but this tighter clearance also creates a more powerful squish effect. This additional turbulence creates a more homogenous “soup” in the chamber, reducing the harmful effects of lean air/fuel ratio pockets. With all other variables being equal, this contributes to creating an engine that is less prone to detonation."
12-31-2012 03:24 PM
0trbo4myCHEVUICK well measured with a dial caliper and got .041-.044 on all cylinders. The machinest looked in the book and that would give me just under 9:5compression with a 59cc head. Not really sure which way I will go just yet.

The machinest says it will be fine and run it as it is.

If I knew for sure I could handle building the short block I would take it apart, get it decked for 100 bucks put it back together and be done with it. I dont want over 9:8 compression though. Im already at 9:5 with them .042.
12-28-2012 04:38 PM
bygddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Thanks Gary.

There is always room for compromise on a build. In the case of the 383 with the 305 heads, the guy running this combo better get handy with a die grinder. Then he needs a short duration cam for mega torque and he's driving his rod and frying tires.

When he gets home (thank his lucky stars the wife is there watching one of the specialty channels and not out cruising with him), he can then play with his overpriced electronic gadgets.

It's all a compromise. Run a budget engine and have fun. Save towards the 10 G's power plant for later. If it never comes, oh well. No sweat.

Again, hot rodding to me is having fun.

I put my pick up together quick so I could have something to drive while building my rod. Good thing I did or I'd be driving a newer car all year instead of just the winter.
Well said.......and much better then my angry rants lol....thank you
Dave
12-28-2012 02:17 PM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Pugsy,
What you did with the front end of your car is amazing craftsmanship.

Now say you have a short block with all kinds of potential and instead of waiting to get what you need which is a set of AFR's,you buy and use a set of 305's leaving tons on the table just because of some sort of arbitrary budget you have arranged in your head.Yet your tech in cell phone use isn't lacking,your entertainment in cable TV with all the premium channels isn't behind on it's bill,hell your spending more on the extras in life than on the project. So what do you do,make a dump bass decision that effects the whole project for what??. Two reasons. Poor money management and being in too big of a hurry to do what you know already is a better choice in the AFR's.
And when I say you Pugsy,I don't mean you personally.

There does come a point in matching up engine parts where there is no choice. The example of that is a guy who build a 383 bottom and now finds his budget affords 305 smog heads.aaaaaaaaa,Not!!.

My amazement is guys have the kahunas to post what they can't afford or a "budget",but in their lives sure don't have a problem paying for all the extra crap in their lives. Those are the same want-to -be's that hang around the back of our race trailer talking crap about what they want to do having no idea the things we gave up to be racing or have built our current hot rod all the while talking on the most expensive device known to mankind.
Thanks Gary.

There is always room for compromise on a build. In the case of the 383 with the 305 heads, the guy running this combo better get handy with a die grinder. Then he needs a short duration cam for mega torque and he's driving his rod and frying tires.

When he gets home (thank his lucky stars the wife is there watching one of the specialty channels and not out cruising with him), he can then play with his overpriced electronic gadgets.

It's all a compromise. Run a budget engine and have fun. Save towards the 10 G's power plant for later. If it never comes, oh well. No sweat.

Again, hot rodding to me is having fun.

I put my pick up together quick so I could have something to drive while building my rod. Good thing I did or I'd be driving a newer car all year instead of just the winter.
12-28-2012 02:15 PM
bygddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Pugsy,
What you did with the front end of your car is amazing craftsmanship.

Now say you have a short block with all kinds of potential and instead of waiting to get what you need which is a set of AFR's,you buy and use a set of 305's leaving tons on the table just because of some sort of arbitrary budget you have arranged in your head.Yet your tech in cell phone use isn't lacking,your entertainment in cable TV with all the premium channels isn't behind on it's bill,hell your spending more on the extras in life than on the project. So what do you do,make a dump bass decision that effects the whole project for what??. Two reasons. Poor money management and being in too big of a hurry to do what you know already is a better choice in the AFR's.
And when I say you Pugsy,I don't mean you personally.

There does come a point in matching up engine parts where there is no choice. The example of that is a guy who build a 383 bottom and now finds his budget affords 305 smog heads.aaaaaaaaa,Not!!.

My amazement is guys have the kahunas to post what they can't afford or a "budget",but in their lives sure don't have a problem paying for all the extra crap in their lives. Those are the same want-to -be's that hang around the back of our race trailer talking crap about what they want to do having no idea the things we gave up to be racing or have built our current hot rod all the while talking on the most expensive device known to mankind.
OK, but were not talking about 305 heads on 383 bottom end, and you know what....if we were, who cares? If the project is coming together in stages, but its actually BEING DRIVEN then whatever....you seem to think that having a cell phone and giant *** TV and a big house before your drop money on AFR heads is a bad choice....it isn't. I have money, not as much as some, and more then many, so what. The reward in doing stuff yourself, and making it work, far better then everyone says it will, is hugely satisfying. Yah, at a car show, or race track, I expect to see the guy with AFR stamped on the front of his heads to be fast, and if he isn't...its just amusing, but the guy with stamped orange valve covers, steel heads, a Qjet Carb, youndont really expect much from....and when that runs the number, even a respectable one if not a rocket ship, he is the one I wanna learn from, I wanna pick his brain....and I guarantee he is having more fun using what he built, or modified....or (gasp) home ported....then the guy who's stuff isn't even together, or the guys who has 15k wrapped up in it and is afraid to lean on it and break it....anyways...nuff said....we clearly have difference of opinion....
12-28-2012 01:39 PM
1Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
I have enough capitol to pay someone to finish my rod. There just wouldn't be any satisfaction in it. I built my own chassis including control arms. I didn't buy them (although I could have) from Heidts or whoever. Cheaper, yes, and I believe even better. I'm using a whole bunch of used stuff, refurbing it all and will be as good as new.

This can be done also with heads, blocks, intakes. Timing covers and oil pans can be tin instead of billet. These things keep a "budget" as well and there is no difference in performance. Too many things to list.

I'll stand by what I posted and that is simply that hotrodding is making any car go faster than stock no matter where the parts come from.
Pugsy,
What you did with the front end of your car is amazing craftsmanship.

Now say you have a short block with all kinds of potential and instead of waiting to get what you need which is a set of AFR's,you buy and use a set of 305's leaving tons on the table just because of some sort of arbitrary budget you have arranged in your head.Yet your tech in cell phone use isn't lacking,your entertainment in cable TV with all the premium channels isn't behind on it's bill,hell your spending more on the extras in life than on the project. So what do you do,make a dump bass decision that effects the whole project for what??. Two reasons. Poor money management and being in too big of a hurry to do what you know already is a better choice in the AFR's.
And when I say you Pugsy,I don't mean you personally.

There does come a point in matching up engine parts where there is no choice. The example of that is a guy who build a 383 bottom and now finds his budget affords 305 smog heads.aaaaaaaaa,Not!!.

My amazement is guys have the kahunas to post what they can't afford or a "budget",but in their lives sure don't have a problem paying for all the extra crap in their lives. Those are the same want-to -be's that hang around the back of our race trailer talking crap about what they want to do having no idea the things we gave up to be racing or have built our current hot rod all the while talking on the most expensive device known to mankind.
12-28-2012 01:03 PM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Hey Pugsy,

With every post you make and the progress I see you make,and the amount of effort I see you do,you got my juices running hot to work on my project and my utmost respect. You do exactly what I described.I see posts from you about what you got done next and then there are gaps to the next post.I would guess while you build up more cash for the next step. I have never hear a thing about a 'budget" from you.I don't know,but I would think your project is a "open book build" that your totaling in the end.
I have enough capitol to pay someone to finish my rod. There just wouldn't be any satisfaction in it. I built my own chassis including control arms. I didn't buy them (although I could have) from Heidts or whoever. Cheaper, yes, and I believe even better. I'm using a whole bunch of used stuff, refurbing it all and will be as good as new.

This can be done also with heads, blocks, intakes. Timing covers and oil pans can be tin instead of billet. These things keep a "budget" as well and there is no difference in performance. Too many things to list.

I'll stand by what I posted and that is simply that hotrodding is making any car go faster than stock no matter where the parts come from.
12-28-2012 11:53 AM
1Gary What I would like to convey to everyone is a change in thinking.Stop this nonsense about budgets. It just leads to sometime substandard work and surely has lead to substandard parts leaving alot on the table in power and increased risk factors. I kills me to read about a failure in internal engine parts where the guy loses it all and then can't afford to replace it when another $100 to $300 in parts would have prevented it.
12-28-2012 11:44 AM
1Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Piecing a motor together with cheaply found parts and a new set of gaskets is also HOTRODDING!

Doesn't matter how cheap the parts come as long as the car goes faster than stock.

I wasn't aware that you defined hotrodding.
Hey Pugsy,

With every post you make and the progress I see you make,and the amount of effort I see you do,you got my juices running hot to work on my project and my utmost respect. You do exactly what I described.I see posts from you about what you got done next and then there are gaps to the next post.I would guess while you build up more cash for the next step. I have never hear a thing about a 'budget" from you.I don't know,but I would think your project is a "open book build" that your totaling in the end.
12-28-2012 11:43 AM
bygddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Piecing a motor together with cheaply found parts and a new set of gaskets is also HOTRODDING!

Doesn't matter how cheap the parts come as long as the car goes faster than stock.

I wasn't aware that you defined hotrodding.
Pretty sure that's actually what its all about, doing the best you can with what you have. Anybody can write a check, and I'm not interested in bench racing with my retired buddies when I'm 65yrs old about how my junk will perform, when and if it ever gets done....I would rather load my kids in the car, and enjoy it, or hit the track on the weekends...and enjoy it. Yep, I have a giant TV, because my whole family uses it, I have a big house, because my family uses it. Your right about one thing, its all about priorities, and my family comes first, car second.....so if I have to recycle some junk, or buy 1000$ heads instead of $1800 afr heads, then so be it....pretty sure my garbage 305 headed vette is faster now, and alot more fun, then a pile of expensive parts on a bench in your garage.
(Clearly not directed at you pugsy....as your right on the money and spirit of hotrodding)
12-28-2012 11:26 AM
123pugsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
I have known and respected guys who's level of commitment to a project span from 3 to 5 yrs or more to build the best.During them sharing their build they contributed to hot rodding more to the sport than anything.

If you can't wait to get the parts you know you need,I gotta wonder about the rest of the build...............

Being 65 yrs old and not a kid,expenses of life and the understanding of that are a given.Hot rodder and hot rodding is who I am.Not unlike being a biker.The sacrifices made for that and my families support are also key elements.The thing is all too often I run across guys who have expenses they claim they just can't live without.Cell phones,150 channel flat screen TV situations,etc,etc,then tell me all the things they can't afford.I call out that as a matter of priority's with the project not being the number one.

I have been very lucky in to have after yrs of hard work to have a racing operation turn into a profitable business.That being a partnership,anything outside of the business that I want to build privately,I still bear the same cross as anyone else.It's all about money management.

"Open book build" is as I defined it.Enjoy the build not matter how long it takes and stay committed to it to the end.

BTW-these builds are not the same as postings on the net in terms of time it takes. We take all income type members that might not be heard of about their builds for awhile,but then update when progress is made.That's Ok. With each post they gain more respect from me.
Piecing a motor together with cheaply found parts and a new set of gaskets is also HOTRODDING!

Doesn't matter how cheap the parts come as long as the car goes faster than stock.

I wasn't aware that you defined hotrodding.
12-28-2012 10:28 AM
1Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
Um.....ok? Cause that kinda sounds like open check book build....some of us have mortgages, kids, wife's, and yet we still wanna play....so our junk should sit in pieces while we save to buy the best parts? Hey....wanna guess what happens next? Nothing....thats what, and the hobby looses out...because eventually we grow weary of staring at a bunch of expensive garage art that never gets completed cause real life got in the way. So how about buying what you can afford, building what your able, fixing as required, and actually getting out there and enjoying your junk as often as you can.....course what do I know, I actually used a set of.....gasp.....305 heads on my last build....ohh....and may even toss a blower on my mostly stock, completely unknown SBC I have now....but hey, tell you what, while I'm out abusing my junk, and loving every second of it, you can show us all pics of your shiny afr heads, and forged parts, and latest big dollar whiz bang speed parts all piled nicely on your bench waiting to come to life.....253am....still bored....and mildly irratated now....
I have known and respected guys who's level of commitment to a project span from 3 to 5 yrs or more to build the best.During them sharing their build they contributed to hot rodding more to the sport than anything.

If you can't wait to get the parts you know you need,I gotta wonder about the rest of the build...............

Being 65 yrs old and not a kid,expenses of life and the understanding of that are a given.Hot rodder and hot rodding is who I am.Not unlike being a biker.The sacrifices made for that and my families support are also key elements.The thing is all too often I run across guys who have expenses they claim they just can't live without.Cell phones,150 channel flat screen TV situations,etc,etc,then tell me all the things they can't afford.I call out that as a matter of priority's with the project not being the number one.

I have been very lucky in to have after yrs of hard work to have a racing operation turn into a profitable business.That being a partnership,anything outside of the business that I want to build privately,I still bear the same cross as anyone else.It's all about money management.

"Open book build" is as I defined it.Enjoy the build not matter how long it takes and stay committed to it to the end.

BTW-these builds are not the same as postings on the net in terms of time it takes. We take all income type members that might not be heard of about their builds for awhile,but then update when progress is made.That's Ok. With each post they gain more respect from me.
12-28-2012 09:32 AM
0trbo4myCHEVUICK
Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
I like to buy the best aluminum spray paint and paint the 305 heads with it.
The second takes , in the pits and at cruises are priceless...
I should do that while they are off lol. I hope the 59cc350 vortecs perform
12-28-2012 09:25 AM
0trbo4myCHEVUICK
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
I kind of see red when guys include the word budget and a hot rod engine build.

I coined a term.It's called a "open book build".

No budgets/no time limits.You collect the parts over as long as it takes when the funds are available.Then total when done what it cost.

Now if you budget yourself in a pile of trash parts,that isn't hot rodding.Where hot rodding is building the best.

So if you don't think your going to have the money or are not doing a "open book build"-

WELL THEN GO BOWLING.A BALL AND SHOES IS ALL YOU NEED.WALK AWAY FROM HOT RODDING AND DON'T LOOK BACK!!.
While I respect your opinion I must say, this motor is Farr from a''hot rod' build. We are talking about a 3000$ 350 here and it happens all the time. I'm shooting for 350hp/375 torque. I still like bowling.


I would not have committed myself to a 3k build if I couldn't find afford a 4k build.
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