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Need ya'lls advice pretty bad

9K views 56 replies 13 participants last post by  68NovaSS 
#1 ·
Ok here goes, I'm building that 1969 350 that I originally thought was a 302 for my '88 S10. It's gonna be my everyday driver in the Spring, Summer and Fall and probably alot of the Winter unless we get some snow. I have got the bottom end together, mic'ed everything after cleaning, polishing the crank, honing, thrust play, plasti-gauge the main and rods etc etc and everything checked good. I knocked the cam bearings out before cleaning and really gave the gallies some extra attention, installed new bearings and brass plugs. It's standard bore with 4 valve relief flat tops that were in it and I will be measureing the quench tomorrow if I can make this decision to know what head gasket to go with.
My delima is this: I have a stock pair of "186" DH, a stock pair of "062" Vortecs, can get a pair of Dart Iron Eagle SS 007 heads, that were used foe mock up only, for $350.00 that have 72cc chambers, 1.94int. 1.50exh. that need nothing but my springs and a set of plates, can get a pair of "906" Vortecs that have been surfaced .010 with screw studs, plates, guides have been cut for retainer height and PS seals, spring seats cut larger, cut for 2.02/1.60 and come with new Manley 2.02/1.60 valves for $500.00. I have all the tools to cut the guides, seats and stud bosses, tool to pull the studs and tap for the screw studs if I go with the Vortecs I own. I'm going to have to either buy screw studs and plates for the "186" heads and if I go with my "062" I'm gonna have to buy screw studs and self aligning rockers, it's cheaper than buying the studs, plates and non self aligning rockers.
I'm running the Summit K1103 cam, lifters and have the correct springs. I have been practicing on porting on a pair of "882" heads I have and when I feel comfortable enough I will be doing the porting on the heads I use on this motor. I have a couple of dual plane intakes for the old style heads and have one Professional Products dual plane for Vortecs. I'm running a 3.73 gear with an Eaton limited slip, TH350 with a Hughes Tow Master converter, rated at 2000 stall.
I want this truck to be a real sleeper and completely come alive when I call on it. I want to run 93 octane and probably a 3310-4 although I have several, several different carb choices as I have a stock pile of Holleys. I bought a couple of David Vizards books and have been doing alot of reading. I'm going to run long tube headers and am looking at a pair of Walker mufflers that are suppose to flow very good but also be almost OEM quiet. I'm running 235/70/15 all the way around on 15X8 Rallys. Can ya'll give me some advise on the best route to take on the heads? I'm not really concerned about the cheapest way, I want the way that will make the most power for what I want the truck for. It will not see the drag strip most likely, well, maybe once just to see what it will run lol. I know I have probably left some things out so if you need anymore info on this build I will answer asap. Thank ya'll very much.
 
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#4 ·
Summit K1103. Yes I can afford better heads. What heads do you have in mind? I'm thinking 400-425 lbs. of torque will do what I want this motor to do. I know this is a very mild cam but I don't want to give my truck away by it beatin the ground. I can go up on my gear if need be as I don't do alot of highway drivin but don't really want to go much more than a 3.90-4.10. But, I will do what it takes, lol.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I like what I'm reading already. So, you don't think I should mess with any of the heads I mentioned? Just put my pairs back with my collection? I gave $125.00 for the stock "062" thinking from what all i've read that I could easily get 400lbs. with em. I'm gonna do some price checkin and see what I come up with. I thought about going roller when I started this for reliabity and aggression but also planned on porting some 305 heads i've got to. The more reading i'm doing the more I leaning away from the small heads.
 
#9 ·
You're exactly right and yes, after the "882" I will be practicing on the 305 heads i've got. David Vizard speaks highly on the Vortecs. The reason I thought about the 305 heads is just a very budget, budget build but after doin a little readin I found out real quick not to go that route.
 
#8 ·
get a set of caltracs for it.. or build a set..
I had a 85 s-10 with a 42?(iirc) sbc a copy of jeff smiths and john lingerfellers(rip) build way back in the late/early 80/90's and the rear just hopped around... many a rear died in that truck..
we finally built slapperbars that prettymuch made the front half of the springs useless.. but it stopped the hop...
it now just twisted axles..
good luck.. it's a truck you can give up some low end to get moving or build the rear end to take it..
iirc a ranger 8.8. is almost a bolt in..
 
#11 ·
Which 305 head has the real thin casting? I've read somewhere that one or maybe two have thin casting and its hard to achieve a good porting. If ya'll think I can build what I'm wanting with 305 heads I will go that route and continue saving for my next build. I'm looking at close to 2K going with the aftermarket heads and roller cam. I chose the Summit cam I have to go with the 305 head I had originally planned to do and started reading what David V. had to say about Vortecs. Out of the heads I have listed and the info on them and a pair of 376450 added to them, which do you think will get what I'm a wantin done with a little elbow grease put to em?
 
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#14 ·
I think I'm gonna go with the "062". I have the guide cutter, seat cutter, stud boss cutter, arbor and a stud puller and tap guide. I'm gonna practice some more on my porting skills and do a little cleanup and matching on the "062" heads. I think the two books I bought are the best investment, book wise, I have ever made. I posted some pictures in my album of my home polishing/honing work on this motor and will take pictures of my before and after porting job. Thank you for your advise and tips, you have helped more than you know!
 
#12 ·
Stay away from boat anchor 305 heads. Sure, they can work. After $800 worth of porting. Why bother? Your Vortecs will do more than those 305 heads could ever do. You said you learned to walk away from 305 heads, do yourself a favor and keep walking.

Dart, Brodix IK, Bowtie Vortec (small intake) are all good choices if you don't want to use the Vortecs you have.
 
#16 ·
If your spending $800 to port 305 heads your an idiot....and clearly don't read basic English....this is a Do it yourself.....spend very little, and you get what you put in.....they work....well......and nope, I'm not armchairing....I actually got off my *** and did a set....and was very happy with the results.....course, if i spent $800-1000 bucks, maybe I wouldn't have been.....
 
#13 ·
my buddy and me put a 383 in his s10. got the 9" with slicks.the 700r4 went to crap rite off. its a tight fit but not to bad. he used dart pro 1 230's.a bit too much head but its what he had layin around. .its tough to take off with street tires.it dont weigh much.your gona like it.even a stock 350 will push the heck out of your s10.hes gettin bout 460 hp and close to same tq. only ben desk top dynoed though. its a dang hoot to drive.rite now it has a built pg in it and 4-56 rear gears. it is a bit radical but a dang hoot!
 
#15 ·
This is my second s10 build. The first was an '86 with a .060 over flat top 350, Lunati 525 lift with World heads straight out of the box and 4.10 gears with a mini spool and it was very fun to drive. I wound up changin heads on it to "882" and tradin it for my brown '89 Chevy truck. Thanks for your imput, brought back some fun memories.
 
#17 ·
Lets do some Math
SHP castings $400x2 plus $400 for mild porting,lets call that a stage 1 port job.= $1,200.oo
what I get is a casting that will flow 235 cfm(more potential but thats all I need for a mild engine) and have a 75-80% exhaust ratio.I get a flow chart so I can match my cam.

OPTION 2
305/vortec/other GM castings=free or less than $50.oo w/e
buy a head porting kit?,,, $100.oo
buy a couple books,,,,$75.00
Porting power tool,,,$150.oo (or more)
time??? read the books,n/c but 10 hours invested,lets call it enjoyment=still co cost
40 hours labour to port heads to what we think is equal to my stage one port job I paid $400.oo
flow numbers= no idea,but better than stock,no idea if they are even but they look good.
Your labour value? you fill the number in.I would take that 40 hours and do overtime at what Im good at and get that money as a return or bonus towards my engine build.
You save $400.oo dollars for 40 hours of your time.
If you earn 10 bucks an hour then all is well.

The $900.oo you save comes at the cost of 40 hours of your labour and you end up with cast iron castings,that might be equal in flow. Next time you want to step up your power you will need new bigger castings,,,my castings have lots left yet.
If you know for sure that mediocre performance is all you want,then port your own heads,enjoy the project.
 
#18 ·
First off, I Thank you very much for your advice and imput Vinnie. You seem like a great feller. If I was gonna put my truck on the strip then yes, I would be going with proven parts that have the data to back em up. I really, really enjoy wrenchin and it's really all i've ever done and been around. My Dad taught me soo much but it was back in the day, before todays technology. I do still use the "secret" lol tricks of the dirt track days and am VERY thankful i'm able to do as much as I can do. I'm going to take what i'm learning from here, reading and combine it with what I was taught and enjoy building every motor I can. I feel I still have a ways to go before I feel safe puttin my die grinder to my heads that i'm gonna run on this motor, "062" but i'm lovin every minute of it. I do want to thank everybody that has given me their thoughts on this matter and I am quite sure i'll be asking some questions on my next build as ya'll are very smart on todays combinations. I'm headed out to measure the quench and order my head gaskets at least lol. Thank ya'll.
 
#23 ·
I'm going to tell you what RHS told me behind closed doors yrs ago.That they invested huge into a CNC machine and hrs apond hrs of R & D to develop their own program. The thing is even after all the yrs they have been porting heads and with their most experienced porters,port to port matching was only within 25%. The labor hrs for that was out the door costs.More or less out of control and nonprofitable.That with their 5 axis CNC porting port to port matching was now within 5% and they could complete a set of heads start to finish in 8hrs.

It isn't the finish of a port that is most important nor the "rated intake runner size". In fact to smooth port true Vortec heads is counter productive. The rough surface is apart of what makes them Vortecs.What is most important is the cross section of the port and it's shape.

So what's my point about hand porting??. Well if you get a port to run port to port 25%,you just got very lucky because you just achieved the skill level of RHS's best hand porters.Do I suggest you run out and buy a CNC $250,000 machine??. Nope. Do I suggest you do a search on how to build a home use flow bench??. You bet I do. Flying blind is a bad end result. I am trying to make you aware of RHS's research and what you can expect with hand home porting.

Now 305 on 350's??. Increased SCR with under the best circumstances don't flow enough to make them worthwhile. Just the plain simple truth.
 
#24 ·
whene reringing an older engine using the origional heads, is it a bad ideah go just clean up the ports on heads? ive always knocked down the tall casting ridges only on the intake ports and polish the exhaust ports smooth and work a little angle out of the runner but thats it. i never know if it workds or doesnt work. i figure it cant hurt.
 
#28 ·
lol!!!
you guys must think Ive never ported heads,,,When I was in grade 12,metal work class I was using the milling machine as a personal head porter. I was 1/2 way finished the second head when the shop teacher stopped my project.I finished the last 2 ports with an electric drill,cause thats all I had.
I later put those 2.02 straight plug camel bump heads on a 283 with a used(yes,used) duntov 30/30 cam. Back then,people believed that you would lose torque if you used monster 2.02 valves on anything less than a 350 race engine.People also believed you needed small exhaust,2 inch duals,or you would lose torque,,,rofl....
So I had a 283,solid cam,muncie 4 speed,2 1/2 inch exhaust back in the early 70s. Ive moved up since then. I would never discourage anyone from self porting or any other thing you can do yourself,just make sure its worth it.

Now I see people building 383s like they are magic and trying to use cheap parts to make power. All good,if thats what you want,or just want the experience. Im just at the point where I wont work an extra 4 hours to save $50.00,but I will spend an extra $50.00 for a better part that makes the same power.
 
#29 ·
lol!!!
you guys must think Ive never ported heads,,,When I was in grade 12,metal work class I was using the milling machine as a personal head porter. I was 1/2 way finished the second head when the shop teacher stopped my project.I finished the last 2 ports with an electric drill,cause thats all I had.
I later put those 2.02 straight plug camel bump heads on a 283 with a used(yes,used) duntov 30/30 cam. Back then,people believed that you would lose torque if you used monster 2.02 valves on anything less than a 350 race engine.People also believed you needed small exhaust,2 inch duals,or you would lose torque,,,rofl....
So I had a 283,solid cam,muncie 4 speed,2 1/2 inch exhaust back in the early 70s. Ive moved up since then. I would never discourage anyone from self porting or any other thing you can do yourself,just make sure its worth it.

Now I see people building 383s like they are magic and trying to use cheap parts to make power. All good,if thats what you want,or just want the experience. Im just at the point where I wont work an extra 4 hours to save $50.00,but I will spend an extra $50.00 for a better part that makes the same power.
some like the work,, it's fun, it their hobby.. they don't call it 4 extra hours of WORK..
if you think of this, as work you got the wrong hobby..
 
#31 ·
go with stock steel shim and make sure everything is spotless!! check deck height if its over .015 inch use steel shim -it its closer to zero deck use composition gasket and if your fussy and smart measure deck height and choose an aftermarket HG of proper thickness to achieve a .035 - .040 total squish clearance between piston head and cylinder head ..... makes a nice difference !!
 
#37 ·
Well, that was my plan this afternoon but when I got out in the garage all I wanted to do was practice on my porting, lol. I didn't even unwrap my motor. I've got some errands to run tomorrow and plan on checking it when I get home as i'd like to order my head gaskets tomorrow night along with screw studs and self aligning rockers. I'm gettin close to feeling comfortable starting on the "062" heads so maybe might get some porting done next week.
 
#33 ·
Price out doing a set of proper rebuilt sbc stock cylinder heads !! guides - stainless valves- three angle valve job-set spring heights - new valve springs- ect ect maybe some screw in studs and the required machining for the good screw in studs -oh add guidplates ect ect good seals ect ect ........ Then when your educated go buy a set of edelbrock performer RPM heads and have something good for the same $$$ or less !!!!!!!!!
oh then i guess you could do the home porting job lol...... oh wait thats not even really free either is it !!!
 
#35 ·
bygddy,
My point that is kind of for you; you made a good impression with a cheapo 350 in a cheapo vette:::WELL DONE!!!
If you want to stay along this kind of technology? Instead of spending 8 or 900 bucks for a 383 and cheaping out on it with a few good parts and 28 more cubes,,,why not build a cheapo 406 and step up 50 cubes and throw cheapo parts at that?
 
#36 ·
I agree completely, I'm not interested in "cheaping out" this time around per say, if I'm doing a 383 it will get decent heads, SHP200'S OR IK200'S.....and it will get a solid lifter cam. I have no issue there, no, I won't spend huge dollars on "excellent" heads, afr etc...as I still have responsibilities that come first....I may buy, and install a blower on the junk that's in the car now with some cheap head work and see what I have. But this isn't a dirtball field car and I'm not going to treat it that way lol. My ***** came from anybody who says there shoukdnt be a budget. That's foolish, if that were the case some of us would have killer ride's, but most would be forever stuck collecting parts and getting discouraged until half finished projects get sold.......
Of course, then a hack like me can pick up that half finished project, throw budget parts at it, and be rolling in no time.
And around here 400blocks that aernt thrashed are like the holy grail....if I could find one, I would be using one....cubes are king and 406's are big fun.
As for the 305 heads argument, I get tired of hearing guys that have never tried it insinuating anyone who does is a complete simpleton. Nope, wouldn't use them on a "good" motor per say, or a big cube motor, but most of the time when I mention them the words "budget" or "I only want 300-350hp" are mentioned first....and as far as I'm concerned they have their place....but I'm not completely retarted and do know they aernt for everyone.
 
#45 ·
And that wasn't a slight on anyone else's opinions, or offer to help....to be clear....there's many many talented, knowledgeable guys on here....I mentioned the 3 that have helped me tremendously, and clearly know their sht, and have had to listen to "I need help" pm's from me and have taken the time to do so....
Dave
 
#48 ·
Yeah but NASCAR has always had odd ball combo's.I bought at the Indy Drag Racers auction a NASCAR 4.3 and had contact with them until it was done.It is the reason why the teams start with rough forgings or a blank slate. We had been going to that auction for yrs and there was time when Indy cylinder heads ran the event.We got to know them and saw some of their exotic workmanship.Just works of art.
 
#50 ·
No, the difference between you and I is I'm smart enough not to waste my time trying to turn boat anchors into gold.

Yeah, just as I thought. No qualifications or certs to back up what you say? Did you even graduate from high school or have you spent your entire life on here accumulating 7300 posts on here acting like you invented the internal combustion engine? I hear there's an ignore list. You're on it for sure and I hope others put you on theirs. You just give plain old bad advice with an attitude.
 
#51 ·
Kid, you are clearly ignorant, F-BIRD'88 is a wealth of knowledge here.
You should take some time and refer back to some of his numerous posts and you will realise that his opinions are matter of fact and that advice that he generously offers to people here is good advice that actually facking works!
He has helped me and others tremendously.
This thread has gotten way of track and I hope the OP has gotten the information that he sought and some giggles along the way!

Duke
 
#53 ·
You are very right on FBird and the point of this thread. I have definately got my answer and know what head i'm going with and very thankful for all the help. I didn't get any giggles from a few of the posts on here, got somewhat offended but I try to keep that to myself. I dont like drama and I really dont like young fellers that disrespect others.
 
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