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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-06-2013 12:42 PM
vinniekq2 (I would run it at 3 and be done with it. Dont want to take any chances with the offset key failing.)

my response was to this post.I doubt a key would fail.Just offering solutions or alternates,trying to not judge. The 1 degree cam phase is a mute point when the timing chain stretches
01-06-2013 04:13 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
I installed a 3 bushing and now my readings are:

IO 9 BTDC
IC 39 ABDC
EO 49 BBDC
EC 1 BTDC

I am within 1 of the cam card, I think I will leave it as is.
It's fine like you now have it IMO.

Two keys? Maybe for a blower hub. He's talking about changing the phasing of the cam. Cutting a new keyway does not need to be done for a simple cam timing change.
01-05-2013 11:21 PM
vinniekq2 some people machine the crank and use 2 keys.
BTW,custom grinds are similar in price to off the shelf grinds,or should be
01-05-2013 07:48 PM
GMC boogie I installed a 3 bushing and now my readings are:

IO 9 BTDC
IC 39 ABDC
EO 49 BBDC
EC 1 BTDC

I am within 1 of the cam card, I think I will leave it as is.
01-05-2013 04:07 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
Yeah, I need to move it to 106. Timing set is not adjustable. What about using a 4 offset key?
Isnt the timing set adjustable in 3 degree increments. So only need a 1 degree offset key.

I would run it at 3 and be done with it. Dont want to take any chances with the offset key failing.
01-05-2013 03:49 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
Yeah, I need to move it to 106. Timing set is not adjustable. What about using a 4 offset key?
Well, it's that or a bushing in the cam gear. The offset woodruff would be the easier of the two, and could be said to be a better choice because the three bolt holes holding the cam gear on don't need to be elongated.
01-05-2013 03:05 PM
GMC boogie Yeah, I need to move it to 106. Timing set is not adjustable. What about using a 4 offset key?
01-05-2013 02:18 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
I listed the cam card specs in a previous post,they are posted correct.

110 LSA 106 ICL 228/228 280/280
The cam card will often say what position it's to be installed in to get the amount of advance correct. Example:


Otherwise if it's ground on a 110 degree LSA, move it to 106 degrees if you want it 4 degrees advanced.
01-05-2013 01:38 PM
GMC boogie I was using this fixture:

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/2494925.jpg


When I degreed using the traditional method of off the lifter, my results were correct other than needing to advance the cam 4.

Someone told me using the fixture I used the first time would skew the numbers due to the different radius and so it did.

I listed the cam card specs in a previous post,they are posted correct.

110 LSA 106 ICL 228/228 280/280
01-05-2013 01:18 PM
cobalt327 Your previous measuring set up must not have been parallel to the lifter/pushrod and/or the radius was way off. Still doesn't make much sense that it was off only on the closing sides...

In any event usually the advance will be correct when the cam is installed straight up. Can you show the cam card?
01-05-2013 12:54 PM
GMC boogie I degreed again(several times) using the actual lifter/mag base/ indicator and got:

IO 4 BTDC
IC 44 ABDC
EO 44 BBDC
EC 4 ATDC

4+180+44=228 What it is suppose to be.

228/2 = 114 -4 = 110 intake centerline.

Now if I advance the cam 4, my timing events at .050 should be as the card states,correct?
01-05-2013 12:24 PM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
The motor is in short block form on the engine stand. It is a hydraulic roller cam and the fixture I have that fits in the lifter bore has a plunger for a roller camshaft.

I checked amount of degrees from .050 on the opening side to .050 on the closing side just to verify and it is 233 degrees. What a bummer, not that much bigger but bigger than I want.
What really sucks is the 233/233 is a common cam avilable in many standard grinds. So you could have went off the shelf and saved a few bucks.
01-05-2013 12:04 PM
GMC boogie The motor is in short block form on the engine stand. It is a hydraulic roller cam and the fixture I have that fits in the lifter bore has a plunger for a roller camshaft.

I checked amount of degrees from .050 on the opening side to .050 on the closing side just to verify and it is 233 degrees. What a bummer, not that much bigger but bigger than I want.
01-05-2013 11:53 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
It is a custom grind. I am not going to say the company.

Someone told me the fixture I am using for degreeing off the lobe is not accurate as it has a different radius.

Going to redegree using an actual lifter.
If you were using a roller radius indicator on the flat tappet lobe (or vise versa), you'd see an error, but it would be larger than what you're seeing, and it wouldn't add duration to just the closing side. Even a slightly different radius from the lifter your cam uses would not indicate what you're seeing, so it's not the tooling, per se.

This sounds like a mistake by the manufacturer, or they have pulled a cam off the shelf that's close to what you wanted- but even w/that, it's more cam than you bargained for.

I'd be on the horn to these guys...

BTW, if you use a hydraulic lifter to recheck it you should make it solid to remove the lifter piston travel from skewing the measurements. Stack it full of small washers or fill w/grease.
01-05-2013 11:47 AM
hcompton
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC boogie View Post
It is a custom grind. I am not going to say the company.

Someone told me the fixture I am using for degreeing off the lobe is not accurate as it has a different radius.

Going to redegree using an actual lifter.
Are all the lobes the same? Did you check any of the other lobes. Its one thing to be ground outside of spec its another to be off from lobe to lobe. One will still make power the other will not.

Is it a big company? If so let us know. None of them are dead on the cam card. One look at the way they are made its easy to see why. Looks very accurate but really it seems pretty easy for it to get screwed up. When cutting hard metals things just dont always go to plan. Actully it never does go well its always a fight to get it down to the .0001 range and not go over. So the cams are sometimes left a little large. I would be suprised if you saidit was dead on and want to buy all my cams from that guy. But the biggest machines make the closest grinds to the specs.
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