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How to handle this (pictures inside)

14K views 34 replies 14 participants last post by  jon-h 
#1 ·
A couple weeks back I picked up a '59 bel air that had a cheap paint job done about 7 years ago (Earl Shieb). It had some blistering at the bottom of the doors and on the rockers. Now keep in mind I bought this car for a driver and I don/t want to dig into it too deep since I am already up to my elbows in another frame up build. I want to do a quick fix on the areas pictures below. Quick fix meaning no cutting or welding, and yes I know it will be just covering it up to a degreea and I'm sure it will rear it's ugly head again at some point down the road, but for now I just want it smooth and protected as best it can be without adding metal and doing it (properly).








Please lend advice as to what you might think would work best to seal this up for as long as possible. I was thinking to just wire it clean from the outside, put some Metal Ready on it and then skim it over with All Metal or similar product.

Again, I know to most and even to me this seems like doing a hack job, but right now I just want to have it smooth and be able to drive it while I finish my other project. I can do it right at a later date when I have the time and shop space to do so.

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
I have to tell you, I would have left it alone. My daily driver 59 Rambler as a spot similar to that, the rest of the car is nice, it staying like that. It IS a driver and when people see an old car like ours, they are impressed it's even on the road. When it is largely in nice shape they don't even see that stuff. I have had people ask if I recently restored it thinking it was a work of art and it is FAR from that (brush touches all over it). If you have your passions on that frame off (I have the same thing in my life) I would have left it alone.

However, that isn't a choice now is it. It is so hard to do anything that will last very long at all. But if you use a reinforced filler like Everglass and you spray some cavity wax inside to protect it you are going to be about as good as you can be. I know that I saw a lot of this type of repair when I was a paint rep, up on the north coast of California where the salt air eats car alive. I was in a shop I serviced and he was making "repairs" like this on a school bus. This was not the type of work he generally did and I asked him about this and he said the school district would give him a bus like this every once in a while and he did this funky repair and it kept the bus on the road another year or two. Up there, that is darn impressive so if another year or two is what you are after (damn that year or two goes by fast) then there you have it, Everglass, tap in the holes some what so you have a dent with the hole at the bottom. Treat it just like any other dent you would be filling with filler. But fill over the whole thing with Everglass first. Cut it flat and put a skim coat of polyester putty or regular filler over it, prime and paint and cruise with a smile on your face.

Brian
 
#3 ·
Hey thanks! I really tried to live with it but the blisters were too much in fact after washing it when I popped them there was actually water in some of them. These were on the trunk lid with clean metal behind them. Blew my mind.

The previous owner kept this thing outside for the last two years in rainy Oregon under a very absorbant car cover and it lifted the paint on the roof really bad. The areas I pictured are just the spots that appear to be all the way through or very close anyway.

I hate bodywork and am not very good at it at all, so I really wanted to keep the patching to a minimum so It doesn't end up looking worse than it did before. As you can see there is quite a bit of filler on it already so working over that may be tricky.

I appreciate all advice and opinions.
 
#4 ·
I'd get a metal conditioner like rust mort and let it set on there overnight(don't get it on the mud). Then after it's neutralized and off the panel I'd glass it like Martin said. If you're willing to take off the inner door panel you can also brush on some zero rust or on the cheap, rustoleum. Might buy you a little time.
 
#5 ·
you can also use a product called por 15 -*paint over rust-apply let dry overnight then apply filler over it ,it will not cure rust ,but it will stop ary farther rust if you can get it inside even better, this is what i use there are other products that may not be best I like it had no problems ,Do Not get it where you dont want it.VERY hard to sand off even with 40 grit paper
 
#6 ·
Every ones advise above is good. One thing you can do is take tubes of Epoxy cement and mix them with fiberglass cloth cut up into small 1/4 inch slivers. Add the slivers of fiberglass to the epoxy cement until it becomes a paste and apply that instead of body filler. It is significantly stronger than the body filler and will take a little longer to begin to bubble. It WILL NOT give you a permanent fix. Just last a little longer.

Do not use polyester resin. It is not strong enough. Use Epoxy cement or Epoxy resin only.

I hate to admit it but I did this in the 70's as a 20 something year old and got a few years out of an old Merc I had.

John L.
 
#7 ·
John, the Everglass is fiberglass reinforced. It is a short strand fiberglass. Evercoat




There is a longer strand fiberglass like Kitty hair.
Evercoat



Then of course the long strand Tiger Hair
Evercoat



I have found that these products are an amazing quality. Being the rust is merely a hole and not collapsed in or anything like that the shortest hair would be my choice because it is o easy to work with, not much different than regular "bondo". The Tiger Hair is crazy difficult and only needed for busted up fiberglass or something like that. It is a serious PIA to work with.

That Everglass is a killer product for something like this.

Brian
 
#10 ·
Thanks for all the solid advice guys. I appreciate it much better than the criticism I've gotten on other forums. I like to do stuff right, I do, and if I was better at sheet metal repair I would go the correct route. I'm sure many of you could very efficiently to a proper metal repair on something like this. I would spend way more time at it and the results may still be disappointing to look at.

Free beer and food for any sheet metal guy that wants to help with doing it right in a timely manner!!!
 
#12 ·
It is easy for us to get cocky when we have our MIG welders, Beverly shears and other equipment in our garages RatPin. I had to laugh when my buddy tore down a car this week that I had built in 1972. They could not believe I had hidden a seam in the quarter panel that was joined with pop rivets and epoxy resin. At that time I owned a ball peen hammer and a pair of channel locks. :) The point is it worked for 40 years. I would not even think of doing that today but at the time it was the best I could do. It worked because I had the panels clean, rust free and protected from moisture on both sides. I used Stainless rivets and good epoxy. Maybe I was a pioneer in auto body repair. Now they recommend gluing quarter panels on. :thumbup:

Good luck to you.

John L
 
#14 ·
You have to address the rust issue if you want it to lastat all...I'd suggest cleaning out the rust spots with a wire wheel on a die grinder then applying Ospho and while its wet wheel it again wipe off all the access with a paper shop toweland let it dry,come back the next day and sand the area with 80 or 180 then wax & grease it ,then epoxy prime it...This will stop the rust dead in its tracks and the bubbles wont be back,The cosmetic work is up to you but I would normaly use a finishing putty to fill the pits because its soupier and fills the small pits better than fillers ..Then go to a filler, If you just go from primer to filler you might skim over the pits and have an air pocket that can give you problems later on..You can substitute the finishing putty for epoxy glue to fill the pits, its harder to sand but makes a better,longer lasting repair...After all the filler work is done use an epoxy primer again, to cover and seal it..... You can get the Ospho at the body shop supply store Or I'm told they sell it at Home depo now ...I've been using it for years and it really works but I wouldnt substitute it for rust mort or any thing else ...Keep in mind ,your not converting the rust your removing it....
 
#21 ·
LOL. I have already admitted to more than I am happy about. I'll bet every one of us made up some of our own rules when we were just starting our love affair with the American Hot Rod. With a 14 dollar a week paycheck a quart of Bondo from the Western Auto was extravagant. :(

By the way, It takes a good metal man to hammer, dolly, and pick a license plate smooth. :thumbup:

John L
 
#22 ·
I have a suggestion, you could clean out the pits completely and cut a thin piece of sheet metal to cover the area (like 24 ga) then bond it on with 3M 08115 Autobond adhesive. Make certain that you cover the whole piece and get some into the holes. Then skim it with filler. If you do it on clean metal it could last the life of the car.

I've used this stuff quite a bit. (steel to steel; fiberglass to steel) I bonded two pieces of 24 ga together and tried to tear them apart and the metal tore around the bonded area without breaking the bond.

I use this to repair rusted 1/4 pnl edges and door skin edges.
 
#23 ·
the key is to get the metal clean and get adhesion.

Hi,Just to add what i have learned in the great white north and tons of salt on the roads around me,plus my dad was in the car business 50 years as well.I will tell what worked for me and what i found that had lasted when i opened spots like this to repair them...the key to a repair like this is to get the rust out,there are many rust treatments that are very good,(look for phosoric acid on the contents list but the key is to neutralize it properly or the filler wont stick).When i view his photos,i see many dark rust spots,i would first grind the area,then use a stainless wheel on a 4 or 5 inch hand grinder,then neutralize.use the wire wheel again.after you think its clean, take a sharpened centre punch and hammer it thru the weak spot.You need to open a hole for the filler material to push thru and solidify in place,while slightly depressing the metal add thickness to help the barrier.(you will see a small *** form that when solid will hold the filler in place.Once these rusty areas have been filled with whatever water resistant filler you favour(canadian spelling..lol) you can use any bondo.You need to create a water barrier that will keep in place so more filler is better than less pushed thru.I have some 30 year old repairs that have not bubbled on cars that have survived even though done in this used car fashion.Fiberglass matt and resin works best but a fiberglass filler is ok as long as it is not bondo with fiberglas bits added.Most bondo's hold moisture and thats what started the problem.I have had good luck with brazing up a small rust hole(the factories brazed them til the 70's).Most prople who condemn brazing simply havent learned to neutralize the acids in it.The easiest way to do that is to leave it open to our air a few days and the flux residue will react to the air itself,though you could help it with some moisture,all this is in addition to a thorough cleaning of your braze joint or spot.I do like the adhesive idea though i havent tried it but they did replace brazing with adhesives in car roof attachment.I have had cars from all over North America and it amazes me what will stay in place stuffed into a rust spot in the west or the praries but will fall out in 6 months in the east, which is my world..lol.may i suggest that you fellows do what i do to keep rust at bay..spray them inside and out with used oil..its cheap and works really well,though for my everyday wheels i use a service that cant by law use oil anymore and has a commercial spray that is just ok..but if for most of these minor rust issues a good shot of oil will keep it from advancing too much,just repeat every year..all the best p.s...i was just thinking that about this,starting with a clean slate as this chap is,i would clean the metal i suggested the use the adhesive like the waterproof filler to seal the hole and place the steel patch overtop as was suggested,its all about a waterproof barrier and that should be very easy to do for a first attempt. again all the best,mark trafford.Mark Trafford :: pure voice
 
#24 ·
Thanks again for the input, although some of these techniques would require just as much time and effort as cutting and welding in new metal, I still appreciate the input.

I think what I am going to try will be:

Expose and clean affected metal on both sides with wire wheel/brush
Clean metal with Metal Ready (similar to ospho)
Wire brush again
Punch in center of heavily pitted spots
Fill those spots with Everglass or Epoxy cement with fiberglass in it, making sure to fill completely
Nub down any riased spots of the glass filler
Lay Glazecoat over entire area and sand to blend
Lay down primer
Lay down paint and blend as best I can
Spray cavity wax to the door's interior panel
Drive it and smile!

One thing that was suggested to me was to use an enamel primer and paint over the cheap Earl Shieb paint. Something like Rustoleum. Any problems with that.

I also have some of this: Metal-2-Metal. Would this product work as well as the everglass or epoxy? I do know the stuff is as hard as nails and does not sand easily. Any money I can save by using stuff I already have will be a plus.
 
#25 ·
You've gotten a lot of good options. I'll add just one thing that will maybe keep things in check awhile longer. Any place that you can access the area behind those bubble you should take a look and see if you can see any moisture building up or sitting in contact with the metal.
I've seen door bottoms rust out from the weep holes being blocked. I even had a car once that I kept hearing what I thought was gasoline sloshing around in the tank. I eventually had a look around and discovered the passenger door was about 1/4 full of water! A quick inspection showed thw slotted weep holes were plugged and I ran a hacksaw blade in the slot and water poured out for 10 minutes!
Once any areas that hold water are drained, or weep holes are opened, then you can address the inside. Rust neutralizer on the inside once it's dry, will slow the problem down, and allow whatever patch you do to last longer. After neutralizing, you can paint the area with Rustoleum to keep things from rusting again right away.
 
#26 ·
One thing that I believe is better than anything here in the rust belt to keep your car from rusting is to keep it clean. Not just the outside of the body--the underside as well. I run my daily drivers through a car wash that also does the underside about once a week in the winter. I have a 2000 Grand Caravan and the underside looks almost new. My dad never washed his (also a 2000) and the underside was so rusty it was almost unbelievable. He needed to replace his brake lines, rear heat tubes, part of the fuel lines and a gas tank strap. All of mine aren't even rusty.

Keeping the drain holes open is very necessary as well. My first car (1964 GTO) had the rocker panels full of water when I bought it (1975) and when I drained them out it looked like someone filled them with top soil. Fortunately the rockers on those cars were galvanized. (the only part in those days)
 
#29 ·
A couple weeks back I picked up a '59 bel air that had a cheap paint job done about 7 years ago (Earl Shieb). It had some blistering at the bottom of the doors and on the rockers. Now keep in mind I bought this car for a driver and I don/t want to dig into it too deep since I am already up to my elbows in another frame up build. I want to do a quick fix on the areas pictures below. Quick fix meaning no cutting or welding, and yes I know it will be just covering it up to a degreea and I'm sure it will rear it's ugly head again at some point down the road, but for now I just want it smooth and protected as best it can be without adding metal and doing it (properly).








Please lend advice as to what you might think would work best to seal this up for as long as possible. I was thinking to just wire it clean from the outside, put some Metal Ready on it and then skim it over with All Metal or similar product.

Again, I know to most and even to me this seems like doing a hack job, but right now I just want to have it smooth and be able to drive it while I finish my other project. I can do it right at a later date when I have the time and shop space to do so.

Thanks

Just my two cents but once the rust starts, you'll never stiop it.

If I was trying to cover it, I'd indent the area slightly and skim coat it with filler. Because its in the door, you cannot probibly get to the back of it. Sealing the back of it from air and water using undercoating will slow the decay but never stop it.
the key is encapsulating the area from air and moisture. My fix is Not the correct way but will last for a while.
regards
 
#32 ·
I like MARTINSR's solution. He is bout right on the leave it along. My 51 was painted 20 years ago. Very good job in that it has basically laste this long, but it is starting to blister on the panel below the trunk lid and at the bottom of the doors. Am in the same situation you are, knee deep into another project. The little blistering of the paint in spots doesn't really distract from it much. I still enjoy driving it everywhere, and still get lots of compliments, even when I point out that it is starting to rust. Its 62 years old and still looking good. When I wash, wax and shine it up I fret over the bad spots, but don't think I'm ever going to get serious about putting any more money into it. Got a tiny ding in the paint years ago, and tried to buff it out, make it disappear. That caused more trouble than if I had just left it alone. If (when) the rust bubbles start to crack and bleed, then I'll have to do something. probably sell it to somebody wants a nice ride and doesn't want to put much work into it.
 
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