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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-30-2013 02:10 PM
Docpsycho thanx Jester, Il give that a try before I do anything else,
01-30-2013 01:43 PM
painted jester If some of your lifters were pre loaded or run in an engine the check ball will stop compression of the lifter the harder you push the more the check ball stops the oil from escaping! When the engine is running the check ball bounces off the seat for a split second at the speed of cam rotation letting it bleed and then it seats letting it fill (All during this split second) when valve spring pressure is released at the heal of the cam lobe! When pumped up with valve spring pressure on the lifter the oil in the lifter can not be compressed your hyd. lifter is now a solid! when it comes around to the heal of the cam and the valve spring pressure is released the ball comes off its seat and bleeds and seats and fills and starts its ride up the cam opening the valves ETC. So if the lifters are pumped Full of oil)you wont compress them by hand!! Try taking the stuck lifters and hitting the bottoms on a piece of wood it will make the check ball bounce off its seat and may let a little oil bleed off at a time! Do not bounce ( bang or hit) them an any thing hard it will damage them they only need momentum and a guick stop to un seat the check ball! If you don't under stand don' try it! What I wrote reads good to me but I know the procedure and did it through many years and I wrote it LOL it may not make much sense to you! It may save you from tearing them all down! If the plungers are stuck or plugged this wont work! Then you need to follow Cobalt advice, and do some real work!

Let me know if it helps you!

Jester


P.S. I did this with Chry. & Ford lifters in the past because they are clearance checked completely compressed .
01-30-2013 02:03 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docpsycho View Post
Thanx All, I will just disassemble these and clean them with Crocus Cloth unless one of you has a new set to trade me, Ha ha..
No crocus cloth needed.

If you take them apart, just clean them using a totally lint/dust/grit free cloth and work area. Lifters have the tightest tolerances in the entire engine, no place for anything that could get between the lifter plunger and the body.

There's a section on taking a lifter apart and reassembling it here. A hydraulic roller lifter is shown, but the concept is the same regardless if flat tappet or roller.

Only take ONE lifter apart at a time, the plunger is matched to the body, so you do not want to mix the parts between different lifters.

Once apart, inspect and clean. Once clean, a dab of motor oil applied to the plunger is all that's needed before reassembling the lifter. Use a wooden dowel or a pushrod to depress the pushrod cup to reassemble the clip that holds the lifter together.

BTW, I have never received a new set of lifters that were full of anything. If these are full of motor oil I would say they've been previously installed. If the foot of the lifter shows ANY wear pattern, don't use them- they're returns from someone else.

That said, I HAVE had lifters that were balky at being depressed. Have you used a little more than light pressure to depress the pushrod cup? Sometimes the mineral spirits or whatever it is they assemble the lifters with can dry up and cause the plunger to stick. If this is the case, a little more pressure or a tap on the p-rod seat using a wooden dowel and a mallet will free it up. If that doesn't free it up they need to come apart to find out what's up.
01-29-2013 10:16 PM
Docpsycho Thanx All, I will just disassemble these and clean them with Crocus Cloth unless one of you has a new set to trade me, Ha ha..
01-29-2013 09:30 PM
thinwhiteduke Don't the pressure from the oil pump pump em up???

I thought that's how they worked ....

Duke
01-29-2013 09:22 PM
TMF Lindbeck The lifters will expand from the oil pressure after start up is this not correct? That is the purpose of them in the first place, and that's how they self adjust. That being said installing a lifter collapsed and not pumped up will actually make it grow in length, not by much but enough to warrent a valve adjustment and possibly enough to keep the engine from running via keeping the valve off the seat.

Also the oil supply from the lifters goes to the lifters first (filling them and pumping them up) then out rhe top of said lifter through the push rod and then to the top end lubing the rocker arms and cooling the springs.

Ive always pumped up my lifters with them installed using a oil priming tool taken them to 0 lash then + 1/2-3/4 turns and seldom need to fiddle with them past that

That is what I have always done and the theory behind it can some one enlighten me if I have offered poor advice

If I had a new set of lifters and 6 were collapsed or hung up out of the box I would be weary of there quality and would remedy that issue first. What brand are they? The spring inside should not of let them collapse from being in a box I am suspect of there quality
01-29-2013 08:20 PM
painted jester
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docpsycho View Post
It was a kit (including the cam) but I guess il never really know
I just found out what N.I.B. means "new in box" You guys and saving time we old guys sit here trying to figure out initials it drives me nuts I thought it was an off brand name or short for "Naked if needed" !!!!!!!

If they are a name brand you have a guarantee after installation date (usually)? Call the manufacturer and tell them you cant find the recite! Who is the manufacturer? Crane and Voodoo and Isky and COMP WILL WORK WITH YOU If your "nice" Ive done it many times for customers! that bought the wrong crap!!!!


Jester LOL

Almost 2 hrs. looking up nib LOL
01-29-2013 07:27 PM
Docpsycho It was a kit (including the cam) but I guess il never really know
01-29-2013 07:23 PM
painted jester
Quote:
Originally Posted by Docpsycho View Post
So back to my origanal question, Should I be concerned about the lifters that will NOT plunge? I bought these NIB off ebay, not sure how long they have been laying around..
They could be seconds ( didn't pass inspection, Quality control or returned items ) and bought by internet scammers!) Company's will sell off seconds to scrappers and the scrappers will sell them to the unsuspecting who are trying to save a buck! good company's have them destroyed but even at the destruction point people will sneek them out! Im not saying that's what you have I'm just saying be careful!! He may have seen they were bad sat them on a shelf for a year and then sold them to you!!!!

Just a heads up I see this over and over!!!

Jester
01-29-2013 05:32 PM
Docpsycho So back to my origanal question, Should I be concerned about the lifters that will NOT plunge? I bought these NIB off ebay, not sure how long they have been laying around..
01-29-2013 02:51 PM
71nova355 tfo
Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester View Post
355: The bounce method is better then the twist. if you can see the top of the lifter the movement is best overall. You adjust hydraulics hot because its more acurate! Push rod ,lifter, valve stem,lash caps, rockers, rocker ball, rocker stud, rocker nut, cam lobes, etc When hot expand and all the expansion values added up can change your lash or preload from a cold setting. You tube has a lot of bad info your on one of the best sights on the web for info!!!! And learning!!!! Hotrodders!!!!

Jester
Well thank you very much for sharing your knowledge my friend. This is all a fairly new subject for me but its definitely a growing addiction. I can only soak up as much info as I can until Ive at least earned the striped myself. I do tend to follow the good Utube videos tho. lol Super CHevy, Chevy High Performance, Hot Rod, Street Rod, And name brand companies who explain there products, Like comp, crane, Afr, Scorpion, Dart, Trick Flow, Edelbrock, Demon(bg),quick fuel, Holly, Hotchkis, Speed tech, competition engineering, And the best one Engine labs! And thats leaving out my other addiction... streetbikes. Im seriously addicted. I have a whole corner of my garage stacked with hundreds of magazines from every car and streetbike/superbike following company I can get my hands on. Fortunately for me I have a supportive and sexy Woman who puts up with it. And two handsom boys that are agar to follow and help. Never no dad to learn from tho. Thank you!

Oh, and the forums... Steves Nova Forum(sns), Novatech, and now the infamous...Hot Rodding forum!!!!! All this while holding a job, loving my family, and keeping my hobby's in check.
thank you thank you very much.
01-29-2013 12:46 PM
painted jester There's no disagreement here we are only stating our procedures learned over the years! Pumping lifters up is not needed at all. except a couple of aftermarket brands that state to pump them up in their tech sheet! The Chrysler dealers I worked for had warnings about damage to cams ,etc if pumped up, so did Ford! all the main cam company's have warnings in their tech sheets! Its the way I was taught and have taught for years!


Cleaning , and proper lubricating is a much better use of your time. There are so many installers who don't do that most important step CLEANING!!


Soaking in a can of oil is messy and wont fill a lifter only the small cavity above the plunger & below the pushrod seat! you must compress the lifter till it bottoms out and release it to fill it while under the oil in the can, or tear it down fill and reassemble it for those of you that want to fill yours
Bleed down rates vary by design if heavy break in lube or small debree enters the lifter with a slow bleed down rate it can lock the lifter and it wont bleed down! That's why you don't use anything but oil on the lifter bores or the sides of the lifters! Over the years Ive seen them locked up right out of the box and had to tear down and clean them or get a replacement, and some that wont pump up! cheap brands like Su----, J--s, Cr-w, etc Maybe a dozen over 50 years installing cams kits or new lifters!

The last word from me on this is if a tech sheet said don't pump up a lifter I wouldn't say "Hell I'm going to pump it up anyway"! Nor would I say "Hell I'm going to break in my cam at 4000 rpm for 15 min" if a tech sheet say's 2000 for 1/2 hr. because some people say that's all that's needed or wrote a paper on it ,or you watched u tube and saw some videos of people doing it and the car still runs at the end of their home made video

That's my thoughts and my old outdated way (reading and following Tech sheets) of doing things !! If some one can put on here my way is going to in any way cause damage put it on a thread

Jester
01-29-2013 06:25 AM
engineczar ^^^
This is correct. I also never pump them up. Just a quick rinse in the tank. Oil on the body and lifter bore, thin smear of break-in lube on the face.

Once the valves are set I also tend to avoid turning the motor over as much as possible trying to not wipe too much break-in lube off the cam as possible.
01-29-2013 04:39 AM
cobalt327 First- I'm not recommending that people pump up lifters. But if you DO, it will not destroy the engine, nor should it cause a problem w/it starting.

Valve spring pressure bleeds down the lifters. Using the EO/IC method, by the time you've set the preload on all the lifters, all but the last one or two have already seen valve spring pressure and have bled back down. I suppose if you are the worrying type, the engine could be rotated to put those last valves under pressure so they can bleed down while the valve covers, etc. are put on before cranking the engine. That is if they aren't loaded by the springs/bled down while other work is being done, like priming the oil system, setting the distributor, buttoning up the flexplate, etc.

A thread w/some opinions on the subject of "pumped up" lifters: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/prep...se-198693.html.
01-29-2013 12:15 AM
painted jester This is from Crane cams:

There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not limited to: (Brad Penn or Maxima) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams Part # 99003-1
Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.

CAUTION: We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in”. Prior to installing the camshaft and lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil filter should
also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation and includes the following steps:

1. Before installing the camshaft and lifters, wash them thoroughly in clean mineral spirits to remove the rust preventative that is placed on the cam before shipping. NOTE: As a “rule of thumb”, always thoroughly clean any part before installing it in an engine. Never “assume” that the parts are cleaned before packaging. During shipping, packaging material can rub into the component surface and must be removed!

2. DO NOT “pump-up” hydraulic lifters before use. This can cause the lifters to hold a valve open during engine cranking, which will cause low compression. The low compression will delay engine start-up and is very
detrimental to proper camshaft “break-in”.

3. With the supplied moly paste lube, coat the bottom of the lifters, cam lobes and distributor gear. Use Crane Cams assembly lube Part # 99008-1 on all other surfaces and components.

4. Set your valve lash or lifter preload. Try to minimize the number of times that you rotate the engine, as this can displace the moly paste from the lobes and lifters.

5. If possible prime the oiling system. When priming, rotate the engine at least one complete revolution to assure
oil gets to all valve train components. Valve covers should be off to assure that all rockers are oiling.

Jester
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