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alternative to Lizard Skin

484K views 341 replies 84 participants last post by  39 master 
#1 ·
Since RB's Obsolete had the Cool-Car ceramic insulation on backorder and did not inform me after 3 weeks of waiting on it I have done some research. Seems all the high priced ceramic paint on insulating materials aka Lizard Skin, Cool-Car and such are a simple mixture of an exterior latex paint with ceramic micro spheres added to it. Having been a radio control aircraft enthusiast I have used ceramic spheres mixed with epoxy to form various fillets on model aircraft. I would buy these ceramic spheres (Micro Balloons is what they are called) in bulk from either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks Aircraft Supply. A gallon bag of the spheres cost about $6.00. You can see the potential cost savings here. A one gallon pail of exterior latex house paint, add some Micro Balloons to it and you basically have the same thing as Lizard Skin or Cool-Car for a mere fraction of the price. A 2 gallon pail of Lizard Skin is about $160 :pain:

Vince
 
#256 ·
since this is so inexpensive... Obviously I'll do the inside floor of the cab,.. but I was curious; would you do the underside of the cab to cut down on header and exhaust heat.
Do you think it'd help any??

Oh.. just in case this is a web link to my little project.
I'm kind of proud of it since I never did any type work like this before.. had to learn to weld, etc.
http://studebakerproject.yolasite.com/
 
#257 ·
I would not do the underside of the cab with the latex/micro spheres. My suggestion is to use truck bed liner - even the spray on is very resistant to road debris kicked up. I used that stuff under my fenders as well and so far not a sign of deterioration.

That is a great project - my only negative comment is the use of concrete blocks as jack stands - don't. They fail with potentially disastrous results. Harbor Freight has several capacity sets and are almost always on sale.

That tribute to your pup - great. Our kids are long gone with the youngest over 40 so we 'replaced' them with a mid size poodle, shown with me in my car and who is everything you could ask in a 4 legged companion.:
 

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#259 ·
The concrete block / jackstands were kind of misleading.
It appears they are the 'primary' source of support.
Actually the chainhoist was the main support, I just added the blocks as a safety measure.
Dad said I didn't need to blocks at all,.. but I figured better safe than sorry.

Thanks for the props about the site.
The project has been a labor of love so far. I am anxious to get it finished.
:)
 
#261 ·
Thanks for the info.
Did someone say folks sold this stuff on eBay??

Someone mentioned undercoating their fenders.
I plan on putting a think coat of undercoating under the truck (especially under the fenders)
The fenders are fiberglass... someone told me if you had them undercoated real well there is less chance of 'spyder marks' in the paint if a rock hits on the inside
 
#262 ·
Thanks for the info.

The fenders are fiberglass... someone told me if you had them undercoated real well there is less chance of 'spyder marks' in the paint if a rock hits on the inside
Use the bed liner spray - much tougher and will HELP keep stone stars out. So far, I have no stars, but there are special materials to apply there - neoprene, etc. I have some all cut for my front fenders but just haven't installed them yet after 3 plus years of driving the car
 
#264 ·
I am or have ben removing spray on bed liner about 3 weeks now ,applied by previous owner to complete under sde bed cab fenders and interior,inner fenders and firewall .It did not crack or peel in 3 yrs i just wanted it out because i am painting it Red underneath inside and out,will be replaceing with hush mat on interior ,You DO NOT want to try to remove bedliner ,we have wire brushed sanded with 36,80 grit scrapers tried chemical stripper A NO NO it only melts makes a bigger mess ,IT has to be ground off,
 
#267 ·
Thanks for all the help guys.
I have several thing going on right now with the truck...
So I can put on a coat inside and then do something else a day or two while it drys... then do another coat.
after that I can so the places on the doors, etc that I don't need to do any more work.
Just because Winter is here, I can't sit and do nothing.. ;-)
Time in getting short

Now I just have to figure out how I can learn to do my interior....
 
#269 ·
I'm thinking I'll just brush mine on.
Wonder how much extra it will take since it'll go on thinker than when sprayed..?? hhuumm
I plan on doing EVERYTHING inside the truck, floors, sides, roof,
Plus I have extended the cab 16 inches,.. so it's a little bigger than a normal sized pickup.
 
#270 ·
Wow that was a long read.

What left me confused was a couple of the tests conducted showed only a 10 deg difference in temp. One guy just put thermal king padding down after and that jumped the temp difference up to 30 to 50 deg difference.

Seems like I'm missing something here on why to use lizard skin or a home made version of it. Does it just come down to finances?

Is there really any difference using lizzard skin vs using a dynamat product with something like Thermozite Insulator Padding?

The micro sphears sound like they can make a small difference but as the one person said its like asbestos. Once its in the lungs it doesn't come out. Thats a bit scary.
 
#271 ·
It's basically just another barrior to keep heat and noise to a minimum, you don't need to use it but every little bit helps. The micro spheres are NOT like asbestos or they wouldn't be allowed to be sold. As said prior by many...yes they will blow all over the place if you allow it and yes you should wear a paint mask or respirator when mixing.

This is how I did it.....I pour the gallon of GOOD exterior latex paint into a big bucket and VERY VERY carefully pour some baloons into the paint, mix slowly with a paint stick until all the baloons are covered....then pour in some more until you get the consistency of thin pancake batter. I roll and brush my cocktail, if you want to spray you may need it thinner, I'm sure everyone has their own procedure, just be careful and take your time mixing.
 
#272 ·
Remember, this, and all other products of this kind, are intended for sound deadening, not for heat reduction. Any heat reduction is an added benefit, and none of them claim to stop heat infiltration. It's scary to inhale paint fumes too, just use a respirator when you mix the microspheres. Some people swear by lizard skin, and some people like to use other products. This concoction is a lot cheaper than Lizard Skin. It's up to you what to use in your car.
 
#273 ·
I ordered the mirco-balloons today. Heck the place is just 30 miles from me... but shipping is cheaper than driving down there.

One idea I had.... I was thinking of getting an empty one gallon paint can.
Pour 1/2 of the paint into the empty can, and then pour 1/2 of the balloons into each one.
If it goes well one 1/2 gallon can should put on one coat,.. and the other can should put on the second coat after the first one has dried very well.

Just a thought. I assume it will keep just like regular paint as long as you keep it sealed well.

Well... I'm headed back to work on the street rod.
 
#274 ·
home brew lizard skin

I applied this mixture to the floors, inside doors and inside quarter panels. Things I learned: One pound mixed with one gallon latex makes about 1 1/2 gallon. A cheap sand blast gun works really good. Lizard skin on top of por 15 does not hold well, I painted the interior floors with POR then applied the lizard skin, won't be a problem when you get the insulation and or carpet in but you have to be carefull putting tools, etc on the floor. Hope this helps.
 
#279 ·
Because the Dynamat has a foil on it to reflect heat, and the poor man's Lizard Skin takes a long time to dry completely. Also, the smooth metal surface of your floor will let the Dynamat stick better. Put the Dynamat on first.
 
#280 ·
Hi Im new here but Ive been lurking this thread for a while. From what I gathered, this latex/microsphere combo is pretty much for interior use. Im aiming to make something to put on my roof.

Does anybody know if this would work?

Roof Coating from Henry | The Home Depot - Model#: HE287SF871

then mixed with the microspheres in the appropriate proportions? It is designed for outdoor use, and seems to be similar to bus kote, cool kote, etc..

Since it is exterior do you guys think the micro ballons will assist at all in insulation?

cheers
 
#284 ·
OK Thanks Dan..
Before this thread all played out I assume you'd brush on first...
Yesterday I received the microballoons... so I'll wait until I get the fake dynamat stuff on before painting.
I think I can go ahead and do the roof and sides and get that out of the way...
Then when I get most of the interior work done, I can finish and do the floors
 
#285 ·
Well I run across a gall of Exterior Premium Latex paint at Lowes yesterday for $15, so I got it to go with my micro balloons.

I also got the Peal-n-Seal stuff and plan on putting some of it on tomorrow. Might as well do the sides while I have some free time.
I rolled it all out flat so it would lay down flatter.

I'm not sure I understand the process of painting last,.. but I'm no expert and I trust you guys on how to do it properly. So I'm going to wait a while on that.
Thanks for all the help.

I'M SURE I'll be posting more questions as we go along.
Needless to say when I run up against something I might as well ask those who have experience and know how to do it right.
Seems it would be a shame to let all that knowledge go to waste.
Have a great weekend.
 
#286 ·
I have not read all 19 pages of this post to know if someone brought this up before or not. When I have seen Lizardskin demonstrated, it had been sprayed onto an electric griddle. One third regular lizardskin, one third lizardskin plus lizardskin sound control, and one third un-coated. The griddle is turned on, and an ice cube placed on each third. The two lizardskin sections slowly melt, while the un-coated section sizzles and turns to steam. Has anyone tried this same test with the home-made lizardskin?

The underside of my fenders has been coated with lizardskin, so I know it holds up to exterior elements, such as water and road grit. It can be sanded and painted over like on a firewall if a smooth finish is desired.
 
#287 ·
You put the mixture on last because it leaves a rougher, softer, result that the Dynamat will have a hard time sticking to. The Dynamat will stick better to the smooth steel of the body.
 
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