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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-11-2013 10:10 AM
cobalt327 I lost interest big-time when the cost of the electronics to be competitive exceeded the cost to build the engine.
02-11-2013 10:00 AM
painted jester Its funny we older guys remember class racing weight to cu inch !
When , with every run you wanted to turn a faster time! In the early 70s they brought in bracket racing so the guy who didn't have much of a car or the ability to build it or the funds for a shop to build it could compete in brackets bringing more money to the declining drag strips! So now you have cars that could all weigh the same competing in the same bracket from a Volkswagen bus to a 427 Vette! As long as you sandbagged and drove by your rear view mirror and didn't go too fast you won! And comparing a G.M. 327s 1/4 mile times to other engines like a stroked G.M. 383 Just doesn't compute when using bracket times, when each is built and held to that bracket, And some even installing throttle stops!!! Soon the bracket racers took over the tracks and class racers converted to brackets ( It was an easy win LOL) I was a class racer who moved to brackets!!! All I had to do was slow down and I won LOL!

It was really weird if you slow down you WIN !!!

I'm a little off the threads subject "SORRY"! But its just an old mans thoughts at the time of the transition!

Ive seen a big block "Slug" in the same bracket as the little N.Asp. 6 cylinders Win because he went slow enough!!!!!!! That always seemed dumb to me LOL

You can build a car, It cant run for Sh%$ and they will find a bracket for you LOL

Jester
02-10-2013 07:05 AM
MouseFink In 1967, I purchased my "291" heads brand new as bare castings from the local Chevrolet dealership for use on my 1965 375 HP/ 327 CI GM short block crate engine. I shipped the heads and Crane valve springs to Joe Mondello in Van Nuys CA, via Central Freight lines.

I invested about $1200 in my Mondello "Posi-Flow" heads in 1967 dollars, including shipping. After I wreck my '56 Chevy, I sold the motor to a rancher with a pick up truck and he blew the engine about a year later towing farm implements.
02-09-2013 10:48 PM
1Gary Jim,
The heads I think we got them from a friend who had a E/Gas 4 door Austin and had two sets.It was either that or from Jim Oddy who was a local racer at that time.Oddy started his climb to fame with a injected SBC in a 37 Chevy running D/Gas.I'm trying to remember,but I think Oddy won with that car in Indy nationals.
02-09-2013 02:51 PM
Mr. P-Body Gary, I remember EXACTLY the same things you speak of. Mondello Heads? Are you a SoCal transplant or did you ship them? He was in L.A. when I was a kid. Valley Head Service kinda "pushed him out" of the "top spot" in the area at the time. Then came KBE and the new world "began".

Chester, a friend of mine, builds a 290 CID small block for C/E cars that he says "If you launch under 9,000, shut it down, it won't recover. If you're up there, hang on, 'cuz you're goin' for a ride!" It peaks at 11,500. WOO-HOO! More than 3 HP per CID on gasoline! I'm impressed... (:-

I learned at a very young age, no matter how much one "loves" a certain car or brand, NEVER underestimate your opponent. That's particularly true with smaller displacement small block Chevys. Just when you think you've got 'em covered with superior torque and cubes, one will jump up and bite you right on the behind! Didn't happen much on the street, but the track was a different story. Good engines, 327s.

Jim
02-09-2013 01:22 PM
vinniekq2 D/MP and C,wow,those engines were hitting 9500 rpm
02-09-2013 09:02 AM
1Gary I can tell you this.There isn't many if any at all competitive 327's in the 9.90 bracket.Most of them are 383's(kind of on the small side) on up.We've had 383's to 434's and probably every combo in between you can think of over the yrs.In the 10.90 bracket there "might" be afew,but the 383's have such a strong foundation in the class.Alot of it is about the first 60' to 330' times and the torque.
Now in the S/S classes that is a different matter.Those engines have a ungodly amount of money in them.
02-09-2013 08:00 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
What type of racing? A 327 is not a bad choice for a light bracket car. They can be made to live at high rpms with little investment. A good set of X rods and steel crank will hit the 7k rpm mark pretty easy. Cam and heads to support it and 450 500 hp comes pretty easy in full race trim. And can live long enough to finish the season.

Now if you have a spare dart tall deck block...

A lot of 327 have won a lot of races. Go to the track and ask one of the fast cars will have a 327.

It is more costly to get a 350 and even more for a 400 to turn the rpm that the 327 can handle. The short stroke has its advantages. A 7k rpm 327 is about 5 grand a 400 that can turn the same 7k will be 15k but make a lot more power. So in the end a 327 may be the correct choice for your car. But as all others have said the cube can make more power.
7k isn't asking much from a 350, and it won't cost any more than a 327- where the majority of cost is in RPM is the VALVETRAIN, which stays the same regardless of displacement.
02-09-2013 05:13 AM
1Gary We ran 327's yrs ago when we just babies living at home.Well really in our late teens.Ran D/MP and C/MP in a 56 and in 57. De-stroked was the hot ticket back then.Small journal steel 283 cranks,M/T aluminum rods,TRW forged pistons,Isky solid roller cam,Mondello ported heads,tunnel ram,rock crusher 4 speed with 4.56's or 5.12's.<4.56 for the 1/4,5.12's for the 1/8> Welded spiders.

Staged at 5,000 to 5,500 and side stepped the clutch and let her rip.They buzzed to the moon in a hurry.We had every second synro ground down so you would just pull on the shifter.The Lakewood bellhousing never got tested through.(yeah,thank god.)

We used to flat tow the race cars to the track and someone had to be in the race car to help guide it through the turns because of the welded rear end.

I'm trying to remember what they ran.Off hand I think they where in the 11 second region,but I honestly don't remember.That was way,way,before my current race partnership where we stopped count at 17 cars in 20 yrs where we where buying distressed incomplete race cars,finishing them,racing for a yr and flip selling them.

I do know there was a hell of alot of washed windshields,pumped gas,and oil and tire changes back then to come up with the money for the parts between one full time job and a part time job.LOL-back then Hot Rod magazine was the bible.It was all about the cars.Man we eat and drink that stuff up.Date night was a engine party at someone's barn doing a swap.

These days I wouldn't suggest a 327.We know a boat load more now and it's final outcome for the street just isn't worth the costs.

<Sorry for the walk down memory lane.>
02-08-2013 08:50 PM
hcompton What type of racing? A 327 is not a bad choice for a light bracket car. They can be made to live at high rpms with little investment. A good set of X rods and steel crank will hit the 7k rpm mark pretty easy. Cam and heads to support it and 450 500 hp comes pretty easy in full race trim. And can live long enough to finish the season.

Now if you have a spare dart tall deck block...

A lot of 327 have won a lot of races. Go to the track and ask one of the fast cars will have a 327.

It is more costly to get a 350 and even more for a 400 to turn the rpm that the 327 can handle. The short stroke has its advantages. A 7k rpm 327 is about 5 grand a 400 that can turn the same 7k will be 15k but make a lot more power. So in the end a 327 may be the correct choice for your car. But as all others have said the cube can make more power.
02-08-2013 07:14 PM
64nailhead [QUOTE=MouseFink;1644140]My associate, Randall Brock, purchased a slightly used 1967 Corvette 427 L88 in 1969 for $6,000!
I drove his 1967 Corvette 427 L88 a few times and it was the fasted street driven vehicle I have ever drove or even rode in. The Corvette could turn 11.00 sec. ETs consistently with some good bite. R. Brock also owned a 1969 Dodge Charger with 426 Street Hemi with an automatic transmission and his L88 Corvette could blow the Charger's doors off.

Randall Brock's 1967 L88 Corvette
427 CI engine
430 HP at 4600 RPM (advertised)
560 HP at 6400 RPM
Total production: 20 (14 known to exist today)
850 CFM Holley double pumper
Cast iron heads
White with black interior
Convertible
No radio available
No spark plug static shields
M22 Muncie 4-speed
K66 TI ignition
Side pipes
4.56 Positraction
Built at the St. Louis MO Assembly plant
The unconfirmed rumor was that Brock's 1967 L88 Corvette was ordered by the TV host Dick Clark but when it arrived without a radio, Clark refused to accept it. QUOTE]

I knew there was a reason why I always disliked that Dick Clark
02-08-2013 06:13 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by demarques_191 View Post
i had a guy who told me that the best engine to race would be the 327 and he said he could build it to whoop a 350 or any other engine.. so what im asking is... is this engine really that capable of 'whooping butt'. Me personally i'd rather have the 383 or a 400sbc... What are your thoughts?
Serendipity. In a theoretical since there's no replacement for displacement.

But.

In the real world often the relationships and dimensions of component just don't work together, one could think 312 Y block Ford as an old example. Other times you just hit it. The 327 was one of those times, it seems the 4 inch bore in any engine is a gift that allows valves big enough to feed the cylinder. To me it's almost a magic dimension; it's hard to think of a poor running 4 inch bore motor from any manufacturer. Sure you can load 'em up with emissions and mess them up, but generally they've proven to be a family of well, if not superlative, performance engines.

All 327s have a good rod length to stroke ratio, the performance engines got forged cranks; they also got well proportioned to slightly large ports, big to bigger valves, high compression dual quench heads. Just a lot of stuff that works well together.

But against an equally prepared larger engine like the 350 the 327 and 302 for that matter need to have a drive train that adjusts for their need to turn more RPM for equal power. So the end result is as much matching the vehicle and driveline characteristics to the engine’s characteristics.

One has to keep in mind the primary driver behind engine size evolution is the need for more torque to move grocery getters, sell these is what pays the bills over at GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Performance sells to pretty small crowd so even if mom and pop came in to the dealer on Monday following some big national raceway win the preceding Sunday; it was more likely they left with a 250 horse 327 in a station wagon than a 360 horse 327 in a Corvette. So the performance arm of the company most always makes due with what's up for mom and pop production. So as the 283 was a torque search over the 265, the 327, 350, and 400 were from the same intention on the part of Chevy; more torque to cruise more weight and power consuming gadgets.

I won't even comment on some the stuff they went to in the interest of emissions like 262 or 267, these tiny bore motors are attempts to use Voodoo to solve engineering problems and everybody went down that road to the same end.

Bogie
02-08-2013 05:15 PM
MouseFink My associate, Randall Brock, purchased a slightly used 1967 Corvette 427 L88 in 1969 for $6,000!
I drove his 1967 Corvette 427 L88 a few times and it was the fasted street driven vehicle I have ever drove or even rode in. The Corvette could turn 11.00 sec. ETs consistently with some good bite. R. Brock also owned a 1969 Dodge Charger with 426 Street Hemi with an automatic transmission and his L88 Corvette could blow the Charger's doors off.

Randall Brock's 1967 L88 Corvette
427 CI engine
430 HP at 4600 RPM (advertised)
560 HP at 6400 RPM
Total production: 20 (14 known to exist today)
850 CFM Holley double pumper
Cast iron heads
White with black interior
Convertible
No radio available
No spark plug static shields
M22 Muncie 4-speed
K66 TI ignition
Side pipes
4.56 Positraction
Built at the St. Louis MO Assembly plant
The unconfirmed rumor was that Brock's 1967 L88 Corvette was ordered by the TV host Dick Clark but when it arrived without a radio, Clark refused to accept it.

In 1971, Randall Brock traded his '67 L88 Corvette roadster for a 1967 Pontiac Firebird 400 convertible which I acquired a year later . The '67 Firebird had 3500 miles on the odometer. The new owner of the '67 L88 Corvette lived in San Antonio TX and he turned it into a race car and it was never licensed again. It has disappeared from history.
02-08-2013 01:58 PM
painted jester I saw a test comparing a stock high hp late model Vette with a 67 Vette ( I think an L 88?) in the 1/4 and 0 to 60 times! The new Vette beat out the 67 but the 67 had stock tires 7 inch tread the new vette had stock tires but with a really wide tread and it also had stock traction aids that the early Vette didn't come out with!! I watched that and thought it was so unfair!!!!!

Its like the stock factory muscle cars of the 60s, and 70s they came out with stock tires of a tread pattern of 6 to 7 1/2 inches with bare bones suspensions, The new muscle has big tires big tread,traction aids etc ! and to compare the 2 to 1/4 and 0-60 times with data from 60s and early 70's compared to new car test data today is Ludicruse! But you see it over and over again

Jester
02-06-2013 11:25 PM
gearheadslife yes it was, remember back when the 327/350 came out.. the tire tech wasn't what it is today.. today we are spoiled with rubber that even slicks of the day didn't have..
the 327 lack of hugy low end helped it. get the car out of the hole.. and the rpm range worked great with the transmissions aval. then.. 2speed powerglide or 4 speed wide stick..
I've driven both a 327 and 350 vettes with sticks.. and the 327 was way more fun..
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