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How much paint do I buy?

23K views 193 replies 10 participants last post by  Lizer 
#1 ·
Hi another Newbie question,
How much epoxy primer should I buy to cover the car, two coats seems right, will a one gallon kit do it?
Also, how much sanding should I do before I spray? I am planning on doing filler on top of the epoxy primer where it needs it.
Thanks!!
 
#33 ·
After the filler is applied I start BLOCKING the filler using 80 grit on a long board. I use strips of 80 grit either 17 1/2 inch X 2 3/4 inch for clip on boards or 16 1/2 inch X 2 3/4 inch for boards that use a PSA (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive or sticky paper) backing. Some people use air boards, I personally don't, I feel I have more control if I use a long board that is hand operated. Another reason I prefer using a hand operated long board is the shear weight of the air board because the trick to getting a panel straight is to not apply pressure to the tool your using. By not applying pressure to the long board, the sandpaper does the work and the panel has no choice but to be straight. The other tool I most commonly use is the short block. If you take a 9 X 11 sheet of sand paper and fold it in half with wise and fold it in half again, you can get 4 pieces of sand paper from a single sheet of 9 X 11 sandpaper.

When your blocking filler never increase your grit size by more than 100 grit. So if you start by using 80, your next grit would be 180, many people feel that 180 grit is fine enough for primer and in most case it is. For the added insurance I step up to 240 grit and finish my body work in 320 grit. This, is for all intense and purposes over kill. The reason I finish my body work that fine is that I have virtually no chance of sand scratches coming through 6 months after the car is painted so it's just a bit of insurance I use, it takes just a few minutes more and in many cases it means I can get away with priming a panel with one prime session.

As you noticed, in my first paragraph, I put the word blocking in caps. The reason I did that was because when it comes to sanding filler I don't use any machine at all...I use blocks. You can use a DA, air board or palm sander but if you want the panel to be straight, eventually you will use a long board and a short block. This is my preference, air tools work, I prefer hand tools, I like to get my work straight from the beginning.

Another tip when your blocking filler is to cut your filler with your long board or short block at a 45 degree angle for about 10 strokes, then change to the opposite 45 degree angle for another 10 strokes. That way every 10 strokes your cutting the filler against the grain and it cuts faster. I also use guide coat on my filler, it quickly tells me where my highs spots and low spots are. When you reach bare metal it's time to evaluate if the area that the metal is showing is high or if the rest of the panel is low, run your hand across the panel, don't look at it, look away and let the feel of your hand tell you if it's high or low. If the the area with the metal showing is high, gently tap it down with a body hammer and apply filler and start blocking again. if the area where the metal is showing is where it should be, more filler needs to be applied and again, start blocking.

If you need more clarification, let me know and I'll try and explain further.

Ray
 
#34 ·
In the first paragraph of my last post I have a typing error...in the last sentence it should read...width wise, not with wise. Sorry about that.

Also, if you have extensive areas with filler, it's a good idea to "walk the panel", by that I mean don't concentrate on one small area, sand the panel by moving your board across the panel, then change angles on the way back. That way you are taking similar amounts of filler off the panel and have a much better chance of getting the panel straight. Remember that there is nothing wrong with filler, if it's mixed properly, applied properly and the depth of the filler is kept to a minimum. When you mix filler with hardner, fold the filler into itself, don't stir the hardner into the filler. If you stir hardner and filler to mix it you will end up with air pockets and when it hardens they turn into pin holes.

Ray
 
#36 ·
I'm only happy to help. First of all I would ask you if you have purchased your SPI Epoxy primer yet? And what color is your car going to be. I should have mentioned this earlier and I'm not sure if I did or not, but, when ever I prime anything I get the darkest primer I can...SPI makes a Dark Gray/Black Epoxy Primer and would recommend this in 90% of applications. The reason I choose a dark primer is that when I wet sand and I'm blocking, I get a better reflection in dark primer than I do in a light colored primer and I can more easily see where my high's and low's are in the body work. Your going to a lot of trouble and expense, the car may as well be as straight as it can be.

If the car is blue (like in your picture), I would recommend a base coat from a major paint manufacturer such as Dupont or PPG. If your going to use Dupont, I would recommend Chroma Premiere, (Chroma Base doesn't have the metallic control or coverage that Chroma Premiere has, Chroma Premiere may be a bit more money but if your going to use Dupont, in my opinion it's well worth the extra cost) if your planning on using PPG, either Global or Deltron, (Deltron is less expensive than Global, has excellent metallic control and great coverage), Global is an excellent paint...just a bit more pricey than Deltron.

Another reason I asked if you had purchased your SPI primer yet is that they make several excellent clear coats, their Universal Clear would do a great job for your car, it polishes well and has a great price point.

I hope this helps, any more questions, feel free to ask.

Ray
 
#38 ·
A simple answer...NO...Acrylic Enamel is old technology, dating back to the late 60's and early 70's. I don't know who told you this but ask how it's safer? I'd like to know that one. Base clear is not nearly as difficult to apply and I'll explain why. When you apply base coat, as you paint the car the paint lays down very flat and thin, it dries extremely fast and if you have any imperfections like dirt or perhaps a run, let it dry, sand out the imperfection and apply more base over that area only, when the car has the base coat on or color coat and the car is completely covered and dry, you apply the clear coat. Two, three, or as many coats as you like. If you get any imperfections in the clear coat, like runs or dirt, you can polish them out. With acrylic enamel, if the color you chose had metallic's in the paint, what you see is what you get, there is no polishing or you will cut the tops of the metallic's and the color will be dead in that spot...with base clear, when you cut and buff it, it only gets better.

Acrylic Enamel, the only way it would have lower VOC's is because you might put on 3 or 4 coats of paint compared to say 3 coats of base coat (an average for coverage) and 2 to 3 coats of clear (most body shops apply 2 coats of clear, I apply 4 on show cars).

So again...NO...Acrylic Enamel is not easier, if anything, it's harder, it's not forgiving, as I said, with Acrylic Enamel what you see when you paint the car is what you see until the next time you paint the car.

I hope this explains why Acrylic Enamel is not the answer...if it makes you feel any better, the first paint job I did was base clear, it turned out nice...that was when base clear was a brand new technology and they've made it even more user friendly over the years.

Ray
 
#41 ·
Acrylic Urethane is a single stage paint, meaning you add hardner and in some cases reducer, apply the paint and the paint dries with a shine...if it's applied right and there aren't any metallic's in the paint. If the Acrylic Urethane has metallic's in it, well you will be working the paint real hard to try and get a shine...it's the nature of the beast. It should also be noted that Acrylic Urethane's and Poly Urethane's do take a substantial amount of time to dry.

A Base Coat paint generally does not take a catalyst just reducer (some manufacturer's recommend small amounts of hardner, paint such as Dupont's Imron use a hardner, however that paint is most commonly used in fleets such as tractor trailers, are difficult to repair in many cases), dries rapidly, in most cases 15 to 20 minutes and a Clear Coat needs to be applied to give you gloss your looking for.

You do not need to re-tape between automotive Base Coat and the Clear Coat. It is a very good idea to use a tack rag between coats of Base Coat and very important to tack between your last coat of Base and your first coat of Clear....DO NOT TACK BETWEEN COATS OF CLEAR.

I hope this answers your questions

Ray
 
#43 ·
Today is Tuesday, if you have a heated area or warm area 24 hours should be enough, unless you applied more than 2 coats of Epoxy, if you did give it an extra 12 to 24 hours. If it's cool, say 60 to 65 degrees, let it sit for 36 to 48 hours.

Glad to hear all went well, I love it when a plan comes together.

Ray
 
#47 ·
I was just PMing another member about a similar question. For the most part...Yes, this very well could be "you get what you pay for". Some people will say that they've used Eastwood and never had a problem. This might be true. If your car is going the metallic blue that you have in your picture, metallic control could be an issue with anything other than a brand name product...another issue is coverage. If you purchase a cheaper product and it takes twice as much paint to cover the primer....what have you saved? I believe in brand name base coats, SPI primers and clears. To me SPI is a quality product with an affordable price. Brand Name base coats are a quality product and the quality is reflected in the price, especially if your painting something that has a high quantity of metallic's. That's where the price doesn't matter if the less expensive paint is all stripey and motley and has poor coverage. I'm not saying that any of the brands will do what I mentioned less expensive paints will do, I'm saying your chance of that happening with a Brand Name base coat is much less. I refuse to use anything but high quality material for my customers...there is a reason for that. I've seen results of using bargain materials, many times.

Ray
 
#49 ·
Hi Ray,
I started working with the filler today- that's very satisfying! :)
After all the filler work and sanding are done, and I go to shoot the next coat of primer, do I use the epoxy primer again? I have plenty left over. Or do I need to change to a different kind of primer?
Thanks as always
 
#50 ·
I checked back and you are using SPI Epoxy primer...yes you can use SPI over top of your filler/body work. SPI has both good build and sanding qualities so you can use it as a building primer as well. Allow the Epoxy to cure before blocking...about 2 days. Remember, when you block filler or primer you should have minimal to no pressure on the block...let the paper do the work and when you do this with guide coat...your panel will become straight...always keep your paper sharp as well...I save some old paper for those places that you need to get at by hand like corners, curved surfaces like on the rear quarter where the bumper goes etc.

You could use 2K primer over top of epoxy, if you go past the window of re-coating without sanding, you would need to sand the epoxy for mechanical adhesion with both Epoxy Primer and 2K primer. Seeing you mentioned you had quite a bit of Epoxy left, there's nothing wrong with using Epoxy, even for finish blocking.

Ray
 
#51 ·
Hi Ray, Happy Easter, if your family enjoys that holiday,
I have been reading a lot online about how the endura bumper is really challenging to work with. My bumper is in really good shape, but it does have a handful of tiny cracks. What should I use to fill those, a glaze product, probably not the same body filler I am using on the rest of the car?
Thanks,
Day
 
#52 · (Edited)
Glaze products and regular body filler won't work on cracks on an endura bumper and your right, it is challenging especially if you don't follow the correct steps and use the right products.

First, clean the bumper with water born wax and grease remover not the wax and grease remover that you are going to wipe the car down with before you paint. It can get into those small cracks and the solvents won't evaporate quickly plus if you have a wax build up on the bumper, the wax and grease remover will take it off and you won't grind it into the endura bumper when you strip it. After you've cleaned the bumper, blow it completely dry with an air blower, make sure your compressor is free of any oils or other contaminants that might come out of the air line.

The bumper needs to be stripped, use 180 grit on a DA...just take off the paint and OEM primer down to the raw endura bumper. One of the reasons the paint needs to come off is that you might find more cracks under the paint, and #2 especially if it's not the original paint.

After the paint is removed, repair the cracks with a two part plastic repair for the bad spots, like Duramix 4036, 4040, 4030, Sem, 3M or other like products. Fill all the cracks with one of these plastic repair products...make sure you get right into the cracks...don't just skim over them with the repair product, if you do you will have air pockets under the repair and in time with temperature changes it could cause bubbles or blisters to appear on the freshly painted bumper.

Once you have the cracks repaired, let it set up for 48 hours to ensure that the plastic repair product has cured. Use a block and 180 grit paper to smooth out the repaired areas, clean the bumper again with water born wax and grease remover and blow dry.

Apply a coat of "flexible Epoxy primer", let it flash for at least 30 minutes and not more than 3 to 4 hours...then apply 2 or 3 more coats of flexible Epoxy primer...let it cure for 24 to 48 hours and block sand smooth with 180 grit. Now if you have any more imperfections you can apply polyester putty right over top of the epoxy primer...again if you do apply a polyester putty to fill any imperfections, make sure that the polyester putty doesn't get in contact with any raw endura bumper surface, block the putty with 180 grit paper until smooth and straight. Apply 2 more coats of flexible Epoxy primer allow it to cure for about 48 hours.

Now you can finish block sanding with 400 dry or 600 wet paper, apply your base coat and it is also a good idea to add flex agent into your clear coat for the endura bumper.

Simple right...NOT...it's a lot of work but applying polyester fillers over top of the endura product will eventually cause failure. This method will minimize failures of this nature and Thank You to Barry K for outlining this procedure in several of his posts late last year.

Hope this helps.

Ray
 
#54 ·
One other thing I should mention...just as on a bumper cover or even when your stick welding heavy metal, the cracks in the Endura bumper should be opened up or V'ed with a die grinder or cut off wheel...something to expose the crack so that it more readily accepts the plastic repair. This will make it easier to fill the crack instead of just skimming the plastic repair over the crack.
 
#55 ·
Hi, I have been thinking a lot about doing two racing stripes down the center of the body, hood, roof, trunk. I would appreciate any advice at laying racing stripes.
Also when looking at colors, if I do red stripes and the rest is black, should they both be of the same composition, ie, both metalic, or Pearl of the same type?
thanks
 
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