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Somebody is doing things wrong with lead, how do I get through to him?

13K views 126 replies 15 participants last post by  NEW INTERIORS 
#1 ·
Do you guys wanna hear a story that's funny and sad at the same time?

I know this guy that, well he's a do it your selfer...and that's cool...He knows that I've done a few early Fords in the last few years and he belongs to the same club that I did 2 of these old cars for. I went to a meeting for the club about 2 years ago and explained how some metal working equipment worked and how to use it...(I only had about an hour and a half so I condensed everything down and tried to hit on the basics). The Q & A got into using lead versus body filler and I thought the whole evening went quite well.

I've kept in touch with quite a few members and about 2 months ago, one of the members called me asked if I'd come and look at a project he was working on, so I did. When I got there I was amazed at all the equipment he'd run out and purchased, English wheel, shrinker stretcher, numerous body hammers, dolly's and everything imaginable for using lead, you name it, he had the makings of a well outfitted shop. He showed me what he had done to this vehicle and so far much of what he had done looked good but he had several questions about the back panel that had been hit quite hard and aftermarket parts for some reason weren't available and wanted to know how to fix it. I explained to him that he had an English Wheel and he could virtually cut out the damaged area and build a patch panel. Gave him a tutorial on how to use it and even took a piece of metal and showed him hoe it works, all seemed good.

Today I got another call from this fellow to come over and take a look at what he had done. I was shocked to say the least. Instead of using his equipment he welded in a piece of straight sheet metal and told me that he would get the curve of the panel by molding it out of lead. We are talking a panel about 36 inches by 36 inches with radius curves that should be all around the flat piece of sheet metal he had just welded in. This didn't seem to concern him, what his concern was, how well body filler stuck to lead. Some areas will have over 1/2 inch of lead work to get the shape of what the panel should look like.

I told him he would be better off to cut out the metal he had just welded in and make a proper repair panel, he got just a little less than furious with the suggestion and told me that he wasn't about to throw 4 hours of cutting metal and welding it into place when he could get what he wanted by using lead. I tried to explain that in the long run, getting the proper repair panel made and then welding it in would be faster, cheaper and the repair would last longer. Tomorrow he's going out, scouring the city for lead...I was speechless and all I could say was well if it doesn't seem to work out the way you planned, give me a call and we'll see what we can do about fixing it.

I don't know if I should send him a sympathy card or a get well card. I'd call it butcher work if the guy was lazy and just filled it with plastic, but I think he knows better and I just don't understand why he would buy all of the equipment and not use it...Hell, even if he didn't have a wheel, a hammer and eyeball would have saved him many hours of work a hundreds in material.

It's times like this that it feels as though trying to pass on knowledge seems futile. I am now asking you guys how to get through to this person, he's a good guy and I even volunteered to do it for him on a weekend...any suggestions?

Ray
 
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#54 ·
I don't know how far away that is Randy, from your information, your located in your shop...LOL.

Randy, you hit that lottery, get up here and I'll hand the wheel over to you. I've seen what you've built and how long it took you...I worked on my patch panel a bit today and I wouldn't be surprised if by the time I had that patch panel made, you would've turned that old Buick into a 2013 model...LOL. I think from what I've seen, it'd be money better spent if I went to your shop for a tutorial. :thumbup:

Ray
 
#56 ·
Randy look into one of those wheel kits where you would make the rest. You could make an awesome "frame" or what ever they call them. So there is no reason to buy a whole wheel already made. I didn't have the money to get a big one and bought a small "bench mount", big mistake. It is crap and even when I bought a new lower wheel and had a machine shop put bearings in it for me it didn't make it much good, it teased me showing me how it can make a crown but certainly not a pro tool in the least bit. Look into it and put it on your must get list, even my junk one allowed me to make a few panels (though far from filler free) that I couldn't have made without it.

Brian
 
#58 ·
Just got back from test fitting the replacement/repair/patch panel I wheeled at the shop...not to bad but it will need some fine tuning. I tried to use the wheel he had and it would work, however, it's kind of like the difference in DA's, you know the one that if your not careful it'll rip one of your fingers off or that real smooth quiet one that just leaves tiny swirl marks. Well that's the difference in wheels, the one I have is old, it's heavy, but I find it tracks a lot smoother, I have more control and does leave a better finish on the metal. I explained this to the owner of the Buick and he asked if it would be to much trouble to bring mine down...it's loaded on the truck now...It'll help with 27 people...make that 29 people, I guess several people wanted to bring their wives, or their wife wanted to come, which I think is awesome, so we now have 10 groups of 3. With 2 wheels it'll make the whole process easier and I can finish the panel I started on the wheel I'm most comfortable with. All of the smaller panels for the people attending have been cut, people have been told to bring their own gloves, my 3M guy donated safety glasses and coffee and donuts will be served.

This afternoon I'm going to put everything down in point form that I want to talk about and show. I find this works a lot better than having everything written down in a formal rigid setting. there's always questions and this way it's easier to get back on track. I found this out about 10 years ago, I was asked to speak to a freshman class at a local college. I was told that the evening would be about 1 1/2 hours in total, there would be 3 speakers and I would be the first one up. I figured, 3 speakers, 1 1/2 hours...that gives me 1/2 hour of time, just write down 20 points, 1 1/2 minutes per point, there's my 1/2 hour and I'm done. As it turned out, there where 3 guest speakers, a different speaker on 3 nights...I had 1 1/2 hours on my own. If I had written out a 1/2 hour presentation, I would have been screwed, now I had to expand on my 20 points and that worked out well.

I feel I have about 15 minutes of tuning left on the panel (the top of the panel has more of a curve to it than the bottom so a few strategically placed passes should get it done), I was going to have it done, ready to weld but I think it will have more impact if I show where it's out and how a better fit can be achieved using the equipment we have...I'm looking forward to it and it should be interesting.

Randy with your metal working skills, I'm sure that however you get your Wheel, it'll work well. I think using the HF Wheel as a starting point is a great idea. The thing with a lot of the HF equipment is that the basic structure is there and improving on things like the control of the tension and the ability to maintain the tension can be improved on. It's funny you should mention that some older guys have a few tricks, the guy I got my wheel from was that guy, he was amazing and could make anything out of metal and taught me a lot (I've forgotten a lot of what he told me as well, never thought I'd be using it as much as I do...now). He was a machinist by trade and very "old school". When things started to all go CNC he was out of his element and retired. He told me that the craftsmanship was going to go by the wayside with everything being computerized. Not sure if I totally agree with that, you still need to think it, know the principals of what the equipment can do. Maybe what CNC equipment does is take out the personal aspect but it sure improves consistency, time and repeatability.

I would enjoy nothing more than to spend some time with you, from what I've seen, my lesson would be short when it comes to metal working. Metal working equipment is an extension of what you know about how metal works...if you don't understand how metal reacts under different conditions, it doesn't matter what equipment you have, it's not going to work and it's obvious that you have a great understanding of how metal works, getting the hang of an English Wheel wouldn't take you long. Just like the person that sits down at a piano and start playing, they have an in-depth feeling and inner knowledge of music, just the way you do Randy with your trade.

I pride myself on my ability to paint, when it comes to teaching, this is where my real comfort zone would be...As I mentioned before, I don't consider this teaching as much as passing on a little knowledge that hopefully will help other people in the same hobby and in this case the use of tools that otherwise wouldn't be used.
 
#59 ·
Just got back from test fitting the replacement/repair/patch panel I wheeled at the shop...not to bad but it will need some fine tuning. I tried to use the wheel he had and it would work, however, it's kind of like the difference in DA's, you know the one that if your not careful it'll rip one of your fingers off or that real smooth quiet one that just leaves tiny swirl marks. Well that's the difference in wheels, the one I have is old, it's heavy, but I find it tracks a lot smoother, I have more control and does leave a better finish on the metal. I explained this to the owner of the Buick and he asked if it would be to much trouble to bring mine down...it's loaded on the truck now...It'll help with 27 people...make that 29 people, I guess several people wanted to bring their wives, or their wife wanted to come, which I think is awesome, so we now have 10 groups of 3. With 2 wheels it'll make the whole process easier and I can finish the panel I started on the wheel I'm most comfortable with. All of the smaller panels for the people attending have been cut, people have been told to bring their own gloves, my 3M guy donated safety glasses and coffee and donuts will be served.

This afternoon I'm going to put everything down in point form that I want to talk about and show. I find this works a lot better than having everything written down in a formal rigid setting. there's always questions and this way it's easier to get back on track. I found this out about 10 years ago, I was asked to speak to a freshman class at a local college. I was told that the evening would be about 1 1/2 hours in total, there would be 3 speakers and I would be the first one up. I figured, 3 speakers, 1 1/2 hours...that gives me 1/2 hour of time, just write down 20 points, 1 1/2 minutes per point, there's my 1/2 hour and I'm done. As it turned out, there where 3 guest speakers, a different speaker on 3 nights...I had 1 1/2 hours on my own. If I had written out a 1/2 hour presentation, I would have been screwed, now I had to expand on my 20 points and that worked out well.

I feel I have about 15 minutes of tuning left on the panel (the top of the panel has more of a curve to it than the bottom so a few strategically placed passes should get it done), I was going to have it done, ready to weld but I think it will have more impact if I show where it's out and how a better fit can be achieved using the equipment we have...I'm looking forward to it and it should be interesting.

Randy with your metal working skills, I'm sure that however you get your Wheel, it'll work well. I think using the HF Wheel as a starting point is a great idea. The thing with a lot of the HF equipment is that the basic structure is there and improving on things like the control of the tension and the ability to maintain the tension can be improved on. It's funny you should mention that some older guys have a few tricks, the guy I got my wheel from was that guy, he was amazing and could make anything out of metal and taught me a lot (I've forgotten a lot of what he told me as well, never thought I'd be using it as much as I do...now). He was a machinist by trade and very "old school". When things started to all go CNC he was out of his element and retired. He told me that the craftsmanship was going to go by the wayside with everything being computerized. Not sure if I totally agree with that, you still need to think it, know the principals of what the equipment can do. Maybe what CNC equipment does is take out the personal aspect but it sure improves consistency, time and repeatability.

I would enjoy nothing more than to spend some time with you, from what I've seen, my lesson would be short when it comes to metal working. Metal working equipment is an extension of what you know about how metal works...if you don't understand how metal reacts under different conditions, it doesn't matter what equipment you have, it's not going to work and it's obvious that you have a great understanding of how metal works, getting the hang of an English Wheel wouldn't take you long. Just like the person that sits down at a piano and start playing, they have an in-depth feeling and inner knowledge of music, just the way you do Randy with your trade.

I pride myself on my ability to paint, when it comes to teaching, this is where my real comfort zone would be...As I mentioned before, I don't consider this teaching as much as passing on a little knowledge that hopefully will help other people in the same hobby and in this case the use of tools that otherwise wouldn't be used.
I had a large box of goodies, videos and weld samples, blown air bags, seat belts, and a pile of other stuff that I used in presentations at my kids classes in elementary school. I found when you go into those classes you have your years of experience and it doesn't take much to fill time with a class room full of students, they will keep you there for hours upon hours! LOL And that's not including the teacher who will always be throwing questions too! Never did a high school auto shop, I don't have any kids at a school where there is one so I have missed out. But between Boy Scouts and elementary schools I have been able to enjoy doing this as well.

Brian
 
#62 ·
Randy, my older brother was that guy that could pick up a guitar and play it, violin, piano, you name it....but be damned if he could draw a crocked line if he had to. If his car wouldn't start, I'd ask if he put the key in upside down again...(Finally Dad bought him a Ford...with the key that fit both ways). I tried to play the guitar couldn't get the hang of it. That's what I'm saying, you have that natural ability, just like my brother could play any instrument, he had that ability.

I always enjoyed drawing as a kid and that has always stuck with me. When my kids where small, my son's favorite Disney movie was "The Fox and the Hound" I airbrushed a scene from the movie on his bedroom wall...when my Daughter got a little older, I told her I would do the same for her...I could have screamed...she picked Snow White and the Seven Dwarf's. We all have things that we are talented in, some more than others, I think the lucky ones enjoy what they have a talent for and can earn a living doing it.

Ray
 
#63 ·
My brother and sister both could play anything,, My brother even played with big bands here and even made some record's, He could pick the bands to play with if he wanted to and he self tought him self. Me I tried the guitar,drum's, and keyboard,,:smash::smash: Failed everytime,,,

Now drawing was my thing when I was younger,, I passed most of my schooling because I could draw,, All the teachers would get me to draw for them and I think that's how I made good grades,, When me and my Second wife got together I did some quick drawing for her,, Nothing important,, But just wanted her to see me draw,, She was blown away how well I could do it,,, I can't do people, But I car draw anything else..I don't do it much anymore,, But know I still can,, I think that is why I'm like I am with cars,, That artist in me.. I guess anyway,, Plus I'm good at seeing things before they are in front of me..I'm Also good at looking at a picture and building what I see in that picture,,,

I once wanted to open a fitness gym,, I worked out pretty much my whole life,, Well when I wanted to open this gym I went to the bank and they said we can't loan you the money,, I was pi** off.. Went home and my wife said now what are you going to do ?? I said No one is going to stop me,, So I built every machine,bench,stands, and so on.. I bought the weights,And weight stacks for the machines,, We open the gym and everyone could not believe I built everything,, 6 months after we were open the bank would open the door when we would stop in.. Very sad,, But I did it.. Where there is a will, there is a way..

Here's a few shot's of some of the machines and bench's I made,, I won't post the whole gym,, We will be here all day,,, But I think you will get the idea,,, Don't tell me I can do something... I will..;)


Now I built ever peice I built by only looking at a picture and being around it most of my life... NO MEASURMENT'S AT ALL TO GO BY..





 

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#65 ·
Yes Brian, I remember times with my kids and doing presentations, they where a blast..sometimes i think they wanted to talk for hours just so they wouldn't have to do school work.

That is pretty amazing work Randy, if you can do all that< i don't think that any piece of metal working equipment would give you a hard time at all. I know hat you mean about that artist thing,and how you can see it finished before you start, now I call the vehicle I'm painting my canvas. Excellent work on that gym equipment...amazing.

Ray
 
#66 ·
Yes Brian, I remember times with my kids and doing presentations, they where a blast..sometimes i think they wanted to talk for hours just so they wouldn't have to do school work.

That is pretty amazing work Randy, if you can do all that< i don't think that any piece of metal working equipment would give you a hard time at all. I know hat you mean about that artist thing,and how you can see it finished before you start, now I call the vehicle I'm painting my canvas. Excellent work on that gym equipment...amazing.

Ray
LOL, you are probably right on the money there. :drunk:

Brian
 
#69 · (Edited)
Thanks guy's... I didn't mean to side step this thread,,

I made a lot of money in my life,, But made a lot of wrong choices,, The gym was something I waited for for 15 years,, And the last thing I ever wanted to hear was my bank didn't want to give me the money,,,

So I did what I had to do,, It was my dreame in life to have one,,, I started building peice by peice,, Took me a little less then a year,, Sold everything We had, that we didn't really want to part with to pay off as much as we can to start building...

I was also working 12-14 hours a day at the ship yard,, Came home every night and built more,, Once we had everything we needed to open the doors,,, We didn't have a $100.00 to open a checking account,, We hit our piggy bank and started rolling coin's.. My CPA was the same guy that did the big shipyards here,,

We open the doors and things took off FAST.. made very good money.. One night 6 month's after we was open I got a phone call about 10:00 that night from my CPA.. He said I wanted to call and congradulate you.. I said for what,, He said because what you did in 6 months takes people 5 years to do..:eek::thumbup:

My dream came true...:thumbup:

So NEVER GIVE UP ON YOUR DREAMS...
With hard work,, It will happen..;)
 
#71 ·
Well guys, things went well last night, a few hick ups but that was to be expected. I was thinking I did pretty well, got a few pats on the back, then I realized it was because I was chocking on a donut...LOL. But over all it was a fun evening, I didn't get out of there until after 1 AM, lots of cleaning up and questions that where car specific and not related to what we where doing. I guess that's what happens when you get a bunch of enthusiasts together.

I'll have a more in-depth account of how it all went after tonight. I've got a pretty busy day ahead of me...still need to keep my regular stuff on schedule.

Thanks guys.

Ray
 
#75 ·
Hey Guys...As I mentioned...things went well, with a few surprises to say the least. I will post the way things unfolded a little later. For now I am committed to trying to learn how to post pictures...I'm gonna need to learn how to do this if I'm going to post a video...LOL.

I've been trying to figure this out and what I have learned is I have no idea what the difference is between an HTML and a JPEG...so here is about a 4th attempt this morning...Hope it works.

Randy, I've got some editing to do, after all, about 7 hours of video and I want to only post the stuff that means anything.

Ray
 

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#76 ·
Okay, that's the first time I got a picture to post. I'm not 100% sure what it is off, but, I think it's the Orange Chevy Short Box I did, before I applied the Orange mid Coat....For some reason, when I click on it, I can't get it to enlarge...I'll keep on trying.

Ray
 
#81 ·
your limited when trying to post pics directly to the site due to bandwidth, or something of the sorts. i tried to do it before and mine wouldn't even load due to pixels in the camera settings. at photobucket you can post huge pics and it doesn't limit the pics and how large they can be on this site, but if you try to load directly on this site it will either limit the size or not even load at all. photobucket is free and easy to set up. just need an email addy and follow the link and all that crap.
 
#85 ·
Ray, if you go to the link that you posted you will see a white box with "Image Links" above it. Go down the the one that says "Img Code" and click on the URL in the box. You don't even have to "right click" on your mouse or anything. Just click on it and it will disappear and a little the word "Copied" will appear. When that happens you have copied that URL. Simply go to where you are posting the photo and "paste" that URL. I will do it below but put a few spaces so the photo won't appear and then below that I won't put that space and simply paste that "IMG code" URL and your photo will appear.

[URL =http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/69Widetrack/media/BlueTruckAirbrushedFlames_zps8c286c29.jpg.html][IM G]http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p700/69Widetrack/BlueTruckAirbrushedFlames_zps8c286c29.jpg[/IM G][/UR L]




There you go. :D

Brian
 
#84 ·
As far as posting pictures and videos, check this out widetrack, Jon put it together: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-post-pictures-videos-hotrodders-com-210089.html BTW, HTML has nothing to do with pictures. Jpegs, Mpegs etc. are what you need to deal with. You need to re-size pictures to go under the 3KB size limit for each picture. You can re-size pictures with the software that came with your camera.
 
#87 ·
Thanks Guys

I've made up my mind, I'm going to get the hang of this whole picture posting thing.

Dan...Thanks for the link to what Jon posted...I've been busy today but will go through it step by step...when I get a bit more time.

Brian...the picture you posted was the one that I was trying to post...thanks..I had to get it done in California...LOL...That's what the Orange truck looked like before I put the transparent Orange over top. I wanted to post that in the custom painting thread...How do I do that? LOL

Malc...I feel better after you posted that it might be Photo bucket and not me...I know it's me...the check is in the mail anyway.

Well, I spent a few hours trying to learn how to post pictures and this is the closest I've come. I actually got the bolt cutters off of my Avatar...that's a start.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the information seminar on using an English Wheel was well received and did have a few surprises. We had 29 people the first night and 30 the second. I told them that there where people that could do amazing things with an English Wheel (as well as other tools) and that I, by no means claimed to be an expert. I made it very clear to everyone that attended that this wasn't going to be an in-depth course and that it was going to be a "how to" session using basics.

I started off by explaining how metal reacts under different conditions and demonstrated on a 12 X 12 piece of 24 gauge sheet metal showing how putting it through the English Wheel gives different curves in the metal. I used several different Wheels (anvils) to show the different patterns that it made, proper tracking techniques, overlap and explained how these patterns would be used in forming metal to get the correct multiple curves needed out of a standard piece of sheet metal. I answered a few questions and that took us to the break.

During the break, a fellow came up to me and complimented me on explaining things in terms that where easy to understand (I thought to myself...that's the only way I know how to explain...LOL) I talked to him for a few minutes and finally asked what kind of car he had and he told me, he had a 28 Essex Coupe. I asked what he did for a living and he told me...he had been a machinist for the past 36 years. I swallowed hard and asked "why would you come to this information seminar?" He told me that he hadn't used lead in so many years that he had forgotten what he did know and wanted a refresher course but, if I thought it would help, he could bring in some sample pieces he had made on the English Wheel for the next evening. I told him absolutely.

The rest of the first evening was spent answering questions while the people where watching the pre-made repair panel being welded in. I was actually surprised how many people thought that welding a panel would be done in one continuous weld and a lot of time was explaining why the welds where moved around to avoid warping the panel. Everybody got to run their metal through the wheel and then they broke off into groups of six and proceeded to butt weld 2 pieces of metal together and for the most part, warp the panels beyond recognition when they first started...LOL. My new found Machinist College and I showed them how to straighten it out and weld in a more metal friendly manner. I got out of there real late.

The following evening, the welds on the old Buick where dressed, with fans going and bay doors open we started leading, explaining cleanliness, tinning, leading and then working the lead. I think we used about 90% to 95% less lead than would have originally been used. Some people tried it but most people just wanted to watch and ask questions.

Then the machinist brought in some samples of what could be done on an English Wheel and brought a straight piece of aluminum with him, in minutes that piece of aluminum was formed, shaped and perfect, one side to the other.

I found it amazing how fast this artisan could mold metal, I understand why he brought aluminum and he admitted that it was easier to form but what he did in a short time would have taken me hours...if I could have done it at all. I was honored that he made an appearance let alone showed what could be done...and yes, I got it on video.

The two evenings where a success, thanks in a big way to my surprise machinist guest. My good friend now has a proper repair done on his car, many more people in the hobby have a better understanding of what it takes to restore a vehicle and I think I made a great contact that I can learn from and may have an Essex to paint in the future. So, all in all, I would do it again, even though it put me behind a bit in my schedule.

Over the next few days, with help of another member of the club running the camera, I hope to edited the video from just over 7 hours of footage to about 15 minutes...I'll be the guy with the goatee standing beside the guy that, as Randy put it, knows a few tricks on the English Wheel.

Ray
 
#89 ·
Great news Mr.Ray..:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Can't wait to see it.... I won't say to much anymore...accused of being a nay sayer here for trying to help someone here...(Not on this thread) Funny how they come here asking for help, And I come to help others,,, I give my time here,,,,, But it's all good,,:D
So I guess I'll just go back to posting pictures..;)

Good job Mr.Ray.. Keep up the good work..:thumbup:
 
#88 ·
OKAY...I left my reading glasses at the thing last night and went out half way through this post and bought a new pair...Now that I can see things close up again, I have no idea what that picture is on my Avatar nor did I ever take a picture of anything like that...I think I like the bolt cutters better...LOL and still don't know how I got those cutters up there.
 
#90 ·
That does sound like the evening went great - very happy that worked out for you and your buddy. I have watched a couple of videos of Ron Covell, and have considered trying to take one or more of his metalworking classes. It is amazing what a skilled craftsman can do with an English wheel. Can't wait to see you video!
 
#91 ·
I understand what you mean Randy, it is difficult to please everybody, no matter how hard you try. I don't know which thread you're referring to but sometimes it seems a little overwhelming when you do your best and the appreciation isn't there. A fellow at the seminar a few nights ago was a little upset that we didn't totally finish the repair panel...in primer. That's what he wanted to see and felt that he didn't get what he came there for when it was never advertised that we would do everything but paint it. The owner of the car invited him to come watch when the car was being primed. He was happier but, you could tell that he wasn't satisfied...can't please them all.

Maybe, with my lack of ability to post pictures and with your ability to post pictures...maybe we should team up...LOL.

Thanks Bob, it really is amazing what tools can do for a skilled craftsman. I remember one body man that taught me how to get rid of an oil can on a roof years ago. I chased that oil can for a few days, he walked in and in 5 minutes he had the tension restored in the metal and made it look easy. For him it was easy, he knew exactly where and how to move the metal and he used the same tools that I had. What I appreciated was he took the time to explain what he did, why he did it and why it metal reacted the way it did when he manipulated it...I learned many other things from this man...and don't think I ever will get to be as good at it as he was...but this is what his passion was. My passions where in different areas and that's what I tried to focus on.

Ray
 
#92 ·
Ray, I have a friend who is a body man with a knack for getting metal and fiberglass to do exactly what he wants. I have on occasion called him a 'metal whisperer'. It just seems like he whispers to the metal and it says 'OK' and moves. I watched him working on a hood side for a '34 coupe. To accommodate a hemi, he had to remove some louvers to make a cutout to clear the corner of the heads. Owner saw it and said he wanted louvers to go around the cutout - he did it. Owner then said he wanted more louvers, all the way up to the grille shell - he did it. Owner then said he didn't like the extra louvers, and wanted them taken back out - he did it. With all that, he kept that hood side flat and smooth, no ripples, no oil-cans. Then I watched him lay out and paint flames over all those louvers. He really is an artist. (And a patient man - I would have shot the owner!)
 
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