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A kid bought my pickup and threw a rod in under an hour.. how?

9K views 61 replies 24 participants last post by  gearheadslife 
#1 · (Edited)
I have an ethical dilemma. I sold my 1977 Chevrolet 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup a few days ago to a young man who promptly threw a rod complete with holes in the oil pan spilling both oil and coolant on to the ground within an hour of the title being signed over. I rebuilt the motor late last year and have around 500 miles on it since the rebuild. It has been running great since day one and the kid even said it ran "excellent" on the test drive. I am not a professional engine builder, but this certainly isn't the first motor I built and I am confident it was machined and assembled correctly.
I know I have no legal obligation to do this but I want to stand behind my motor. However I do not if it was abused. Do you think the motor was scattered by overspeed, incorrect assembly, lack of oil???
The motor is a 350 sbc, .40 over, new bearings throughout. Crank journals line bored, new rods, pistons, block was magged and fluxed, crank ground. Stock rotating assembly, edelbrock intake and carb. Stock heads were tanked an inspected. New RV cam. Engine was made to last, not be a runner..
I have been out of town for over a month, oil was good the last time I put gas in it and had no visible leaks or smoke in the exhaust. Truck has been parked except for test drives since I left.
The guy swears he did not tach it, but we were all 19 once so I have trouble believing. So what do you guys think? I know there is a lot of experience on this forum, certainly more than I will ever have.
Thanks in advance for replies.
 
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#15 ·
Every Judge would say and agree with him, "luck of draw"
He has 0 liability! Period.

I have some young guys working for me 21-30 and there is one common denominator, EVERY-TIME they get a new car be it a used $5000 car or a new $53,000 car first thing they do is get out there and smoke them up, not once but I have seen 30 minutes worth, even with the expensive new one mentioned.
Of course they think I'm an idiot because, 3000 miles on a year old vette and I can't say if it will smoke the tires, guess I'm too cheap to buy new tires for it.

Yep, someone missed a gear, end of story!
 
#3 ·
Its nice to be caring but I think it was on him. Sounds like a simple case of *hey I just picked it up...friend: the truck with the 350? Buyer:yeah ill be at your house in 10. Gets there friend hops in....lets see what it will do smoke em*

When I was in the sport compact phase I tried to run a motor into the ground while the motor/drivetrain I wanted to put in was being built. I tried everything...I put 15000 miles without an oil and/or filter change and without adding. Ran it a week straight with no Radiator pressure cap and only adding water. All of this was done with 75% of the time being under as much wot as possible everywhere. The day of the swap the oil smelled rich and was only dark no coolant leakage no globbing and started right up. but then we put the new one in which was actually of the same block and tranny just different internals and bolt ons for a direct swap...kind of. Long story short...alot of details I left out.....I would imagine that happening would only be due to high pressure stress for a good amount of time. ive seen alot of autos throw were under alot of high temp stress.....hot rodding around then winding it up to 140 and holding it for a while then taking it back down to park then show off and rev up and boom....friend did that. Another example was a tire warm up then sit then hit it and boom. I could go on and on lol.
 
#4 ·
threw a rod complete with holes in the oil pan spilling both oil and coolant on to the ground
Now think about this carefully. If a rod bearing was going out or a rod nut loosened up, it would make some noise before it finally let go. Matter of fact, it would make A LOT OF NOISE. The kid would have shut the motor off in that case and would not have continued to drive the truck. If that were the case, and you could have heard the motor running with the loose rod, you might fault yourself.

That is not what happened. The kid matted the loud pedal and either missed a shift or just didn't let up at all. There's only one way a rod comes through the pan, a catastrophic rev failure. He bought it, he killed it. End of story.
 
#56 ·
Now think about this carefully. If a rod bearing was going out or a rod nut loosened up, it would make some noise before it finally let go. Matter of fact, it would make A LOT OF NOISE. The kid would have shut the motor off in that case and would not have continued to drive the truck. If that were the case, and you could have heard the motor running with the loose rod, you might fault yourself. /QUOTE]


X2 - you're officially on the hook for nothing.


Quite a while ago, 17 years, my wife was headed home from work late at night. She was 6 or 7 miles from home when the check engine light starting going on and off. She said a couple of seconds later she began to hear a noise and it got louder as she drove farther. She figured that she was so close to home that she would tell me about it the next morning when I got up. She ended up telling me about that night when I had to come get her and drag the car home. That was the 1st engine I ever rebuilt, and not because I was a gearhead, but rather out of necessity (I was flat broke at the time and asked my employer for an advance to pay for it.)

The last two engines that I've rebuilt for other people were similar situations - old, worn out, high mileage stock engines with spun bearings. Both people shut them down when the engine noise became VERY loud. All three of these had to have the cranks cut and one new, or new to the engine, rod. NONE of them threw a rod. Do you see where I heading with this?

My point being, I can't imagine that this kid didn't hear something that should've raised his attention to make him think, 'hey - something doesn't sound right'. :mwink:


My first piece of advice: tell the kid to save the engine so you can look at it when you get back home and make sure to tell him to save everything and don't drop the pan. And until then there is nothing you can do. The failure will be obvious if you know what you're looking for. There will be identifiable conditions showing a broken rod bolt, a loose rod bolt, an oversped bearing, or a lack of lubrication. All four will have specific, identifiable failures.

My second piece of advice : get back home safe and in one properly functioning piece. Good Luck (I hope none is needed):thumbup:
 
#5 ·
My feelings on what happened? He dropped it in 4 wheel low, which doubles the amount of gear reduction, he gets into the throttle and finds out it seems to have double the power it did in high range due to the gear reduction. Within the first second of feeling the power of low gears he wants MORE so he gets swallowed by mores law which is "If some is good, more must be better"
So to the floor it goes and he doesn't know or realize now that it's in low range the engine reaches redline very very quickly, twice as fast as it does in high range. He floors it, holds it there, not realizing it's at redline, the valves are floating, he's still holding it down, a piston kisses a valve and bang!
The ball game is over. If the engine had 500 miles on it, that clears you of any wrong doing as I've never seen one have a mistake in the bottom end then last 500 miles.
On another occasion a used to be friend of mine had a nice 67 Firebird.
The previous owner had dropped in a chevy 350 and TH350 trans. The engine was a basic stocker with a 2 barrel carb. However it did run strong. It did not smoke, use oil, and it didn't have over 30,000 miles on it since the overhaul. He decides he wants something that gets better mileage so he sells the Firebird and buys a Isuzu Pup. The guy who bought the Firebird lived about 4 miles away. He let his teenage sons take the car out one night. The car came back on a roll back with 2 slung rods. How did they do that? They over revved it. The teen's father had been told by friends how his son was treating the car when it blew, he had the shifter in 1st, foot to the floor, wouldn't let up on it or shift, the valves floated and bang. Game over.
 
#6 ·
Sold as is, no warranty expressed or implied.

I had a friend who had no respect for his vehicles. He got a 90's Cadillac and would leave it in 1st or 2nd because it sounded like a racecar at 65mph. It could not do a regular burnout ...so he would get going in reverse, then shift into drive. The rearward momentum the car had to fight spun the tires and put extra stress on everything.
 
#8 ·
You have no obligation. As you said, we were all 19 once. But - if you do feel an ethical obligation, maybe you could spend some time with him giving moral support and advice though not a penny's worth of financial support. He knows how he blew the engine - and the only way it will catastrophically destruct to the point of blowing holes in a casting is high revs.
 
#9 · (Edited)
My sons grilfrind bought a 96 Mustang an drove it for a week until it blew a head gasket. The previous owner an her split the cost of parts an labour 50/50. He didn't have to do a damn thing, but I thought that was a nice thing to do. If this happened to me I'd have him buy a rebuild motor an have him help with the install. Just an idea, but its not my call.
 
#21 ·
This was my original thought, just to be nice. Problem is he and my truck are in Montana and I am headed to Kuwait for a year in a couple weeks. I am in Texas now, so there is nothing I can do besides give him money. I'm not going to do that. I appreciate all of the comments, I just wanted to validate what I already suspected. And this whole thread definitely cements it.
 
#11 ·
You built the truck, you drove the truck, And i am sure you got on it a bit here and their. You had no problems. Sorry but this is a perfect case of young and dumb. The kid nailed it or even dropped down a gear, to see what it would do. Once you handed the title over cash was counted. Your done.
 
#12 ·
v8
19rs old
punched holes in the pan
???

Not your fault. If the rod was going to let go, your neighbors would have heard it knocking. He wound it up and kept it there like Billy ****** and it bit him.

Id say nothing but, if you feel like it, suggest a rev limiter for his next motor.
The ONLY way you pitch a rod with that kind of force in 60 minutes of owning a new car is acting like a 19yr old.
 
#14 ·
A Brit who worked with me had worked in Detroit, owned an IROC.
One night he parked the car and made his way up to his apartment.
Entering the apartment the phone starts to ring.
It´s the police.
They have his car and the two guys who stole it.
When he gets there the car is okay apart from having a motor strewn
all over the road under it.:mad:
It does´nt take long to destroy a motor.
 
#16 ·
not try'n to be an a-hole, but Love how everyone ASSUMES..
let me play the other side, why you sell the truck? was it because you knew of an issue??? remember I'm just ASSUMING.. like everyone else here..
you don't have to rpm an engine to have a rod let go.. a nice shift from 1 to 2 under load will do it at 3000 rpm..
before everyone tells the o/p to not worry or CARE about it.. I think seeing what happened would be the 1st order of business..
and unless your bill of sale says sold as it, where is.. and you don't live in a state that has limits on that.. good luck..
I'd find out what happened in the engine before ASSUMING..
would it be any different if a 43y/o bought it and the rod let go..
or you just gonna ASSUME a 19 y/o will be the only driver that MIGHT beat it..
 
#17 ·
I don't care how old you are-

you bought a used vehicle from a non-dealer. buyer assumes the risk. It could have blew a rod backing down the driveway 15 seconds after the deal, not the previous owners problem.

A dealer sale would be a different story.
 
#20 ·
I agree. Its the crap happens thing. Im still considered young by many but I have mellowed out alot being 31 than when I was younger due to lessons learned. Being younger heightens the threat of issues. Whenver I go to shows and cruises without fail majority of the people showing off are younger people the small percentage are the rich old people that either have no respect or dont care having the money to back their rash decisions up. Not saying it leaves us when we get older it merely dims because who doesnt enjoy a burnout or neck snap from lift or hittin through. The want and need are just lower plus with age comes knowledge of limitations so fewer problems are to be had before they even start. If the motor was solid before test drive I bet it initiated during the test drive because who doesnt torture an auto at least a lil bit during a test drive probably created a hairline crack so when he bought it he put it under higher loads of stress and there she went. No matter what though when an auto is bought used from a private party and something goes wrong its a chalk it up situation because no one has xray vision to see any problems internally of anything. Dealers are responsible only out of warranty covered autos. Its up to the buyer to decide to chalk it up or purchase an extended warranty if the auto is marked As Is/No Warranty. Alot of insurance companies are now into that with offerings of breakdown relief as well.
 
#23 ·
Gearhead, I'm glad you are playing devils advocate here, I can give a little more detail. The guy, though he is young seems like a stand up honest guy. The whole reason I brought this topic to this forum is because I want to give him the benefit of doubt based on his apparent sincerity. On my end, the reason I am selling the pickup is because I was using it as a daily driver while my girlfriend drove my 07' Silverado during the winter, she just bought a car in November so now I have my 07' available for me to use. The 77' was getting driven once every couple weeks just to keep the fluids circulated and it sat in the driveway. I just don't need it any more. It really did run great. The whole reason I rebuilt the motor is because it had developed a knock so I parked it. When I pulled the motor apart it looks like I stopped driving just in time as there was a large chunk of the casting around the wrist pin on one of the pistons that was gone and 3 pistons had broken rings. I had the pickup for about 7 months before the knock started.. as far as state laws in Montana, the bill of sale does not require a no warranty disclosure. There is no warranty unless stated. I didn't sell the guy a lemon, this was just bad luck or abuse so far as I can tell.

Tech inspector, thank you! I am glad to serve!
 
#25 ·
this is all that needs to be said!
caveat emptor

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[Latin, Let the buyer beware.] A warning that notifies a buyer that the goods he or she is buying are "as is," or subject to all defects.
When a sale is subject to this warning the purchaser assumes the risk that the product might be either defective or unsuitable to his or her needs.
This rule is not designed to shield sellers who engage in Fraud or bad faith dealing by making false or misleading representations about the quality or condition of a particular product. It merely summarizes the concept that a purchaser must examine, judge, and test a product considered for purchase himself or herself.
The modern trend in laws protecting consumers, however, has minimized the importance of this rule. Although the buyer is still required to make a reasonable inspection of goods upon purchase, increased responsibilities have been placed upon the seller, and the doctrine of caveat venditor (Latin for "let the seller beware") has become more prevalent. Generally, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such Warranty is the Implied Warranty of merchantability. If a person buys soap, for example, there is an implied warranty that it will clean; if a person buys skis, there is an implied warranty that they will be safe to use on the slopes.
A seller who is in the business of regularly selling a particular type of goods has still greater responsibilities in dealing with an average customer. A person purchasing antiques from an antique dealer, or jewelry from a jeweler, is justified in his or her reliance on the expertise of the seller.
If both the buyer and the seller are negotiating from equal bargaining positions, however, the doctrine of caveat emptor would apply.
 
#26 ·
My grandparents had a simmilar deal. It was an early 80's LTD that kept burning Duraspark boxes and my grandfather mentioned it to the kid several times and the kid was happy to pay $600 for the 10ish year old car ( this was early 90's ). Later that week the kid brought it back destroyed, and demanded his money back, threatened to sue ect.... My grandfather turned him away and nothing was ever said again.
 
#27 ·
In some places,the buyer can return something within a few days and cancel the original deal with no penalty,check local laws.
I myself would get the engine apart and I would cover any and all engine labour myself.While I had the engine apart I would "CSI" the engine.If I figured the engine was abused I would still supply my own labour for free and show the fella how it works and how it should be done correctly.
My thoughts about an engine failing at 500 miles is something was done wrong,,,, A stock flat tappet cam engine should not be able to over rev even in neutral.
Parts costs? after taking the engine apart and figuring why it failed I would decide then.If I had zero doubt he ruined the engine,I would tell him what and why and put him in the spot with a chance to come clean.Maybe he would buy all the parts.If I had a doubt as to if it was my fault,I would piece meal a stock engine together using a used short block and would have the fella do a lot of the work putting it back together.
You have an opportunity to be a hero.Here in Canada the minimum costs would likely be 50/50 and at a facility it might be cheaper if you step up and help.If you play it right you might just do the rebuild labour and at the same time teach the future generation 2 things:
How to fix something with a little knowledge about looking after something
2 and this is a big one,INTEGRITY,even if its not your fault,maybe he will be like you in the future,

or maybe he will be like you in the future if you walk away from him?
 
#28 ·
I'm not going to pass judgment on the kid who bought this. I was not there and don't know the guy. I'm just trying to figure out how you throw a rod if your not beating on the engine?

As long as you where honest with the sale I don't think you should feel any responsibility in the issue. Parts break sometimes, even it it had a "professional" rebuild it wouldn't be covered since you sold it.
 
#29 ·
Vinnie if I was going to be around at any point in the next year I would do that, by I just started another 1 year deployment to the middle east. For anyone who cares to know, I found out what happened. The gear shift indicator is off on that pickup and falls somewhere between the N and D while in drive and is pretty well lined up on the D when in second. apparently the fact that it never grabbed 3rd gear never caught his attention. And he ran it at 60 mph in 2nd gear for about 10 miles. That pickup has 4.11 gears and is full time awd. So end of the story is that it wasn't blatant abuse, it was ignorance. He didn't really know much about older vehicles and common quirks we are probably all well versed in. If I had been there I probably could have shown him a thing or two and avoided this situation all together. I feel bad for him, but I can't really do anything for him unless I want to pay for it. I've made plenty of ignorant mistakes before, and sometimes they get expensive. Live and learn.
 
#31 ·
Vinnie if I was going to be around at any point in the next year I would do that, by I just started another 1 year deployment to the middle east. For anyone who cares to know, I found out what happened. The gear shift indicator is off on that pickup and falls somewhere between the N and D while in drive and is pretty well lined up on the D when in second. apparently the fact that it never grabbed 3rd gear never caught his attention. And he ran it at 60 mph in 2nd gear for about 10 miles. That pickup has 4.11 gears and is full time awd. So end of the story is that it wasn't blatant abuse, it was ignorance. He didn't really know much about older vehicles and common quirks we are probably all well versed in. If I had been there I probably could have shown him a thing or two and avoided this situation all together. I feel bad for him, but I can't really do anything for him unless I want to pay for it. I've made plenty of ignorant mistakes before, and sometimes they get expensive. Live and learn.
and I'm guess'n you were not the one that showed him the truck..
cause if you did.. your failure to show him that.. kinds puts you on the hook.. and what 78 chevy is awd?
 
#32 ·
kinds puts you on the hook..
Am I the only one who realizes when you buy a used viehicle from a non-dealer you're taking a gamble?

Puts him on the hook for what?

This entire thread is FUBAR, a guy sold a truck, the new owner broke it, not the original owner's problem. I've bought quite a few cars this way and the thought of me even considering notifying the previous owner of anything is laughable.

Some of you guys act like you never bought a car before.
 
#33 ·
Am I the only one who realizes when you buy a used viehicle from a non-dealer you're taking a gamble?

Puts him on the hook for what?

This entire thread is FUBAR, a guy sold a truck, the new owner broke it, not the original owner's problem. I've bought quite a few cars this way and the thought of me even considering notifying the previous owner of anything is laughable.

Some of you guys act like you never bought a car before.
EXACTLY!
All my years of selling cars in about every state there is, never have known of a state, where I was forced to give a warranty.
Someone asked what state he was in that required this and no answer and there will be no answer as it is too easy to find the law.

Just bullchit to see yourself in print, I do believe.
 
#30 ·
60 MPH in second gear would put little stress on the engine other than a little extra heat from the RPMs.
I drove from Vancouver Canada to Bremerton raceway,got lost on the way,raced,and drove home the same day with 5.13s and a 27 tall tire.I had to adjust valves,no damage.
 
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