|12-13-2013 05:55 PM|
|glhx||It's my daily driver. I have some cars I can take my time on. I'm in a little big of a hurry on this one....within reason|
|12-13-2013 05:04 PM|
|glhx||Yeah.....I moved for a job unexpectedly. The car was left in my shop back at my house. I have an apartment up here. It was not planned to move. Otherwise it would be much easier|
|12-13-2013 03:44 PM|
I think if you read the Marhyde tech sheet you can indeed spray it on the bare metal. That being said, You are far better off spraying the car with epoxy fkrst for several reasons. First it is water proof and also has far superior adhesion than the pilyester.
I would submit that you should not be trying to paint a car that is 100 miles away with only one day a week to work on it for practical reasons. It should be something that you are challenged to do, find interesting and enjoyable. If that is the case, you are doing exactly the right thing. Keep going and you will be excited once you get it done.
Have you considered doing one panel at a time. You could shoot epoxy one week. The following week do the plastic work and then shoot the Marhyde on it the same day.
Hang in there. You will be glad you did.
If by some chance this is not fun and challenging to you any nore, I would suggest that it would be cheaper to take the car somewhere and have a professional paint it than what it is costing you to run back and forth.
|12-13-2013 02:17 PM|
I have 1 day a week to work on my paint job. My car is 100 miles away.
Spi epoxy has rules to follow. While these rules are acceptable in most situations. I'm finding it difficult to use.
I sprayed it.
Came back 6 days later and put filler over the top of it.
Sanded the filler and made some bare metal spots.
Resprayed the whole car with epoxy to get another 6 day window. To not have to scuff it....a lot if work.
You have to wait 24 hours before applying filler.....so I waited another 6 days
Came back to the shop.....applied more filler. Sanded that filler..more bare metal
Resprayed whole car....to get 7 day window. Again to not scuff it. Run risk of not getting every nook and cranny
Came back 6 days later. Did glazing putty finish....sanded to more bare metal.
Sprayed....the entire car....to get another 7 day window.
Couldn't come back.....within 7 days. Had to scotch bright and scuff entire car with 180. Found more flaws....fixed them....spot sprayed. Got tired of spraying it and just scuffed it. A lot of work. Took hours
So now I have 60% of the car scuffed....40% spot primed from where I had to respray the areas that I hit with 180..
In 2 days I'm going to spray high build on it. The spots will still be wet and the rest is still scuffed. I have to wait 2 days for the epoxy to dry before high building it.
..................let me ask. This whole job..... Is this completely ridiculous? I took something that takes like 3 days and it's been months doing this. I still don't have high build.
When I go back I'm just going to high build it. If I go to bare metal in the sanding I'll go back over it with some epoxy.
If I had to do it over I'd put filler directly to metal. Finish it....spray epoxy. Wait 6 days and high build it. I feel like I've painted 6 cars already.
When I mixed the epoxy wrong the first time. I did all these steps then as well.
I need a more user friendly method for the distance and time frames I have.
I can't put the high build directly to metal can I. It's marhyde polyester.
Not ranting .."..just try ing to sort this out. I feel like I'm doing it all wrong
|11-12-2013 11:44 AM|
That's good, I think panels are straight. At this point I can probably flatten the epoxy and then run high build on that sanding straight with 600. I do my body work more like you do. It's finished before I ever prime.
I've learned to rough it in. Then finish it with 180, then go back over it with glazing putty to an almost transparent state. The reflection idea helps a lot. Thank you again
|11-12-2013 11:20 AM|
High Build Primer will absorb moisture, however, not tot he degree of a polyester or lacquer primer. By using an Epoxy over bare metal and over body work, you have in effect sealed the car off from moisture to the best of the ability of today's products.
Where to start is dependent on how straight your panels are now....if you know your going to need to prime again, you can straighten your panels out with 180 or 220 grit on your long block, re prime and then start blocking with 600 wet as a final block.
To make sure you don't have waves, after sanding the panel, wipe it down with wax and grease remover, while it's still wet, look at the reflection. If there are waves in the reflection, there will be waves in the paint work...if the panels is free of waves and finished sanded in 600 grit, it's ready for paint.
I block everything by hand...the only time a DA ever touches a vehicle I'm doing is when I use a DA for stripping...other that, it's all by hand.
Hope this helps
|11-12-2013 11:08 AM|
I want to sand the high build. I know high build absorbs water as well does filler. With the epoxy underneath it.....and on top of the filler. The water won't get through to the metal. Is this correct
If I had not used water sealing epoxy. Can I still wet sand the high build?
How do I start. I know there will be orange peel which I need to make flat. I know I need to end up with 600 grit finish. What grit should I start with ? Or should I run 600 all the way from cutting the orange peel to the flat finish.
Don't know if the paint is water or solvent based. I know its ppg and I believe it's the nicer stuff.
Also.....in sanding I don't want waves. How do I accomplish this. I have 6" hand discs and a 12" long block to use. I was going to do it all by hand......should I do it by hand or use a da with a fine pad. I need directions.....
|11-10-2013 03:53 PM|
Just to add to what Ray has correctly stated. Most Epoxies do not have very much build properties.
The SPI will offer higher build than any others I am familiar with but certainly does not build anything like a good 2 part high build primer surfacer.
|11-10-2013 03:53 PM|
|glhx||Will do. Thank you Ray|
|11-10-2013 03:46 PM|
High build primer is exactly that, it adds more mil thickness so that you have more material to block sand and straighten out your panel. Is high build necessary, only if you have imperfections in your body that can be leveled with the use of a primer, other than that, Epoxy primer will work.
Most people use a high build for, as I mentioned, for filling characteristics as well as the fact that High Build primer will block sand easier than an Epoxy primer, high build also cures quicker making it a faster overall product. The choice is yours, if it was my vehicle and knowing the problems you've had, I'd get the Epoxy on, let it properly flash and apply several coats of High Build, block sand and paint the BMW...this is a quicker method and it's still done properly.
|11-10-2013 02:21 PM|
|glhx||I too have time to prepare body work with epoxy only. Should I even use high build. There's a lot on there|
|11-09-2013 07:43 PM|
I was looking at scotch bright pads. I thought there were only 2
Have you ever used any other colors besides maroon and gray. I saw tan and dark gray. Which are very abrasive, thoughts on these colors for roughing up primer for great mechanical adhesion
|11-09-2013 06:28 PM|
Yeah that answers my questions. It sounds like scuffing just the surface of the orange peel will give good adhesion. As long as the primer is opened up.....you get chemical adhesion.
And a red scotch bright gives good mechanical adhesion as long as it's sharp.
And with spi you only need 180 scratches when your adding filler over the top of it and the primer has dried. Otherwise you only need a scotch bright pad.
I've never used epoxy primer before....I remember shooting etching primer....waiting and shooting high build on top of it 1/2 hour later. All filler was done on metal with 40g scratches. I sanded it flat and painted over it. Nothing ever dried except the high build. With this job I can work 1 day on it so I'm always pushing the drying time. So I have to learn to scuff it correctly......I've hear stories where people do this wrong at it lifts. I had to start over because I shook the can instead of stirring it. And didn't let it induce. I'm a little gun shy now. I'm just now back to the point I was a month ago.
Learned a lot along the way. First paint job I ever did I sanded the base and then cleared it. The clear lifted a year later.
I also sanded the orange peel out of the clear with 600. Never did get the scratches out. Was a practice job on a car that didn't matter. What I don't know costs me in these cases
|11-09-2013 06:18 PM|
The type of work I do allows me to use only Epoxy primer. The reason being that I spend much more time getting my body work straight before I prime than say a shop that does collision work and relies on quick turnover to make a profit. I find that SPI's Epoxy gives me enough build that I can get my panels straight without requiring the extra mil thickness of a high build primer...because I have the luxury of being given the time to work my panels more before priming.
Orange Peel and adhesion have nothing to do with each other....however, if a panel has had all of the Orange Peel removed, you know that it has been opened up completely because in order to remove all the Orange Peel, the entire panel must have been sanded. The same opening up of the primer can be achieved by using a scotch brite pad and scuffing the panel...this way, the primer has been opened but, the Orange Peel remains.
Hope this answers your questions
|11-09-2013 06:04 PM|
Do you use high build primer or use the epoxy to build It up.
Is it true the flatter you get it and more orange peel you take out the better it will adhere ......or des it even matter.
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