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spi epoxy test

35K views 242 replies 28 participants last post by  dinger 
#1 ·
i think this will be about the 5th time this has been done on this board over the years . when the bs gets deep someone does it.
this test panel was sanded with 80 grit and cleaned with solvent base cleaner.
shot 2 med wet coats with a 1.4 at noon yesterday .
80 degrees in my booth
after approx 18 hours of cure
scrubbed with lacquer thinner until rag dried

only some slight residue came off . look close and you'll see my finger prints so i was not being gentle .
now this should put this to rest for a few years again .

this test was done to help those who do not post but need correct info on products or are looking for help. please do not move it to the paint only sub forum . i do not use cheap 3rd line paints so i can offer no help there . that seems to be the main reason for the sub forum.

signed " one of the spi thugs "
 

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#120 ·
There is no real way to compare 30 year old paint to todays paint.

The stuff 30 years ago had a lot of good stuff in them that is no longer allowed.

Centari with glamour pak, most excellent in its day. Todays cat'd enamels don't hold a straw to it.

To make a comparision it needs to be todays tech vs todays tech.
 
#122 ·
THANK GOD I TRIED SPI PRIMER !!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Stop B****ing about SPI until you really try it......Just maybe you will like it as well,,,, If not move on... I still don't know what the he** bit you on your a** about SPI primer.... If it's what you read,,, Don't read it...;)
 
#124 ·
if you have something negative about a product please post it . i can assure you if i found a better product i would post about it . i can also assure you if the product did not live up to it's claims i would raise cane about it. i do this for a living . i can not afford a failure . which in case would be disassembling a finished car and starting over .
i first read about it here . after using it for many years i am grateful to those who used it and recommended it.
 
#126 ·
Well I don't go out of my way to complain about a product and bring a bad light to somebody, but if it comes up, I will share my experiences. I will, however, go out of my way to share positive experiences.

When I have a failure...and I'm a pretty analytical guy, it's how I pay the bills...most often times I first have to question myself whether it's ANY product. And if I'm still not satisfied, then I call the respective tech line before airing it. The reason being, I could be very inaccurately representing a product due to failure of my own methods. And not being a professional, let's just say that's more than likely what the situation is going to be.

Now with that being said, if the tech line is a bunch of *******s to me, well then I am sure as hell going to air that. I want them to tell me how to use their product better, not be a dick to me for using their product.
 
#125 ·
Guys, what you are seeing is what a paint rep sees everyday. You go into a shop and the guys says THAT PAINT SUCKS and goes on and on about some time when he tried it and it sucked and failed and wrinkled and fisheyed and peeled and the color didn't match and on and on. The twelve shops in town that are using it every day don't have a problem and will tell you how much they love it, but listening to this guy would lead you to believe it was junk. The guy isn't evil, he is expressing his experience that's all. His experience was all bad for what ever reason. He isn't evil for goodness sakes.

Brian
 
#127 ·
After reading this thread over and yesterday I was PMed about another Epoxy product, I checked it out and found a thread about that very product on this site in 2006. Yes SPI was mentioned as an alternative but, no one bashed the other product in question. In fact, even people that used SPI claimed that it was a good product. I've only been on this forum for about 8 1/2 months and I'm confused, I've read that SPI is a good product but I haven't really seen anybody getting beat up over using something else. I have however heard all too many times about people that claim to having received a difficult time from other members about using anything but SPI.

"41 Buick Custom", I have nothing against you, I don't know you and you do sound like an intelligent individual, in order to help me better understand, could you point out posts where people have insulted or abused other members for not using SPI? I would like to read the entire thread and analyse for myself where all this angst is coming from...that may seem like a waist of time and maybe it is but I like to be informed and don't want to make errors that others may have made.

I have been a rep for several major paint suppliers, I've tried to be honest about the good and the bad about each company's product. I've told my customers in advance to not use a product before the company pulled it off the market, I've even recommended a competitor's product if it would better suite the needs of my customer. Compared to what I was using the SPI product I now use works better for me, that's me, if there is something better for someone else then that's what they should use.

Ray
 
#128 · (Edited)
Hello porchdog/shine your tests just confirmed what I tested New Jersey 65 to 70° brushed Georgia 85° sprayed 18 hours later a little bit came off. Not a big deal. My question to you as you know I'm working on 55. I went to try five site. There was a thread where you stated " I guess everybody heard that this epoxy came off with lacquer thinner 'One guy responded I did not see that thread. The question was not answered.and then a bunch more posts some reference to some people stay in Motel 6.it seems that this is your favorite topic of conversation. Well anyway just an observation on my part. PS my wife forces me to stay at Holiday inn against my will.
 
#132 ·
pat , you really need to read the threads a little closer. i disagreed with your test . you claimed it washed off to bare metal . i performed a test on a spray out panel which is more realistic and posted it . nowhere in that thread was motel6 mentioned nor were you mentioned. you may also notice there were not posters slamming spi or the ones who use it. that seems to be a hr.com thing.
i had not posted here in over a year . YOU brought me into this with your post . i simply disagreed with your test there . but you had to make it personal. it's very simple , call me out and i will show up . you quote me or use my name in a post i will respond.
as for the 3 whinners in this thread , why did you even bother to post ? you added nothing . your post were simply mean to start something . especially you buick kustoms. your post had nothing to do with spi and you know it.
this thread was beneficial until yall showed up .
 
#129 ·
Reply

If you noticed I've never said anything about the good or bad about any product mentioned here. I'm not the one that came up the name SPI thugs. I have in no way said anything bad about anyone on this site. I never would. I don't know why it is so important that so many take offence to the idea of getting paint comments into a separate forum so people are not afraid to post questions without being told the only way there project will amount to anything is to use SPI. I've always used like products start to finish. One companys primer, color, clear. No matter what company. I follow threre instruction sheet to the letter. As for sanding epoxy, I always wet sand. All epoxy are hard to sand, it's the nature of the beast. I will admit there are certain people on this site and other sites that are known for just starting trouble. We all know who they are. They are not that we'll liked. But in most cases it's the old saying, the enemie of my enemie is my freind. They get just enough people to agree with them to make it look like they are in the right. There was nothing wrong in what I tried to accomplish. Others have agreed. If you like the way this forum is now, so be it. don't ask me to respond to this subject again, I'm not going to, I've said all I'm going to say.
 
#130 · (Edited)
All epoxy are hard to sand, it's the nature of the beast.
This is where your wrong...:D
Let me say this and only this... And I'm not pushing SPI on you are any one,,BUT !!!! I will say this about it,, I have use a lot of Epoxy primers and Yes they was so hard to sand it was un-real..:smash:

But I have had SPI Epoxy primer on my C-cab for about a year now,,, And One of my friends came over the other day and asked about the SPI primer's and how hard was it to sand,,, I said WELL !!!! Let's see !!!! And I said here's the sand paper go at it... Next day he ordered some...WOW !!! He said he has never seen one sand that good before... We was using a lot of DP90 at one time..... Now since he messed up my nice job I done priming it...:D

I felt I needed to block the rest,,, Took me about 15 mins to block the whole Body.... Before you say ALL Epoxy primers are hard to sand... I think you need to use all primers before saying that... You would be very surprised at just how well it sands,,

It's one of the biggest reason I'm hooked on it.. Spray some DP90 and try to sand it...:D:pain:

AGAIN !!! not trying to push SPI primer's,, Just stating the REAL fact's about it... Everyone is able to use anything they want too..;)

And here's the body ..Just so you don't think I was making this up..:D

 

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#133 ·
Hello shine,good morning and happy Father's Day to all.my reading comprehension may not be the best. I'm getting confused because this conversation is on 2 boards. you posted it on 6 /12/13 on the Trifive board.I'll be to first to agree that your product is excellent, there are many excellent products out there. They don't get the press they might deserve.I am somewhat confused about the window. Is the body filler window longer than the recoat window?As you know in the paint business if you improve a product you lose something on the other end.From what I read your product sands nicely What have you lost on the other end? Well anyway I think with all your skill maybe you could teach some of us some techniques for instance, where's a good place to start your paint job, where you start spraying first,is it better to do one panel at a time things along that line. We seem to forget that their younger people out there who would love to learn how to paint.
 
#134 ·
After reading all of this and thinking about things for a while, I have come to realize that some people are going to argue and disagree about everything possible. If you have a product or product line that you like then use it. I have my preferences that work for me at my shop, and my customers are happy with the immediate and long term results. That is good enough proof for me. I work on a wide variety of vehicles from frame off high end builds, to collision/production. I stand behind my work, If there is a problem that stemmed from workmanship or product failure then I will fix the problem, no matter what the car is worth. My reputation and lively hood is on the line everytime I send a car out the door. With that being said I use the products I feel are the best available. My families well being depends on customer satisfaction, that is all we really have to offer is customer satisfaction. If you and you customers are happy with your product then keep using it. However, if you are not willing to try a new product then your business may be short lived. Just think how many of us would be in business if we were all still spraying Acrylic Enamel and Laquer..........

I don't claim to know much, but I do this everyday and I am more than willing to offer my best advise and help anyone that I can. If I don't know the answer I will try to find someone who does.

I would like to publicly thank everyone on this forum that has offered advise and help to me since I have been here. I have learned a lot of useful things here and hope others have as well.

Best of luck to everyone and Happy Father's Day:thumbup:
Kelly
 
#135 ·
After reading all of this and thinking about things for a while, I have come to realize that some people are going to argue and disagree about everything possible. If you have a product or product line that you like then use it. I have my preferences that work for me at my shop, and my customers are happy with the immediate and long term results. That is good enough proof for me. I work on a wide variety of vehicles from frame off high end builds, to collision/production. I stand behind my work, If there is a problem that stemmed from workmanship or product failure then I will fix the problem, no matter what the car is worth. My reputation and lively hood is on the line everytime I send a car out the door. With that being said I use the products I feel are the best available. My families well being depends on customer satisfaction, that is all we really have to offer is customer satisfaction. If you and you customers are happy with your product then keep using it. However, if you are not willing to try a new product then your business may be short lived. Just think how many of us would be in business if we were all still spraying Acrylic Enamel and Laquer..........

I don't claim to know much, but I do this everyday and I am more than willing to offer my best advise and help anyone that I can. If I don't know the answer I will try to find someone who does.

I would like to publicly thank everyone on this forum that has offered advise and help to me since I have been here. I have learned a lot of useful things here and hope others have as well.


Best of luck to everyone and Happy Father's Day:thumbup:
Kelly
Well said Kelly, there may be some that are fanatical in either direction, they like one particular product or hate it...overall, I think and hope most people are realistic, willing to try new or different things just to see if there is something that they might be missing and all to often they do find that a method or product has the ability to better fill a need.

Keeping an open mind is key, paying attention to not the few that are passionately and perhaps driven with unfounded information in one direction or another, but to the ones that apply common sense and after some investigation, you trying it for yourself and forming your own opinion.

I personally have expressed view points on this forum that have been met with "who cares" or "your wasting Band Width", well, I care. If I feel that I need clarification on an idea or principal and if there are enough people that are prepared to offer their opinion, their idea and hopefully their logic then it does matter. If this, for whatever reason is offensive, boring or not worth reading, the ideal situation for those feeling that way would be to gracefully bow out and move on. I don't reply to every post on this forum, sometimes it's because I feel I don't have anything of value to offer, other times I'm not interested, either way it's my choice and I move on.

Best to you and your's Kelly on Father's Day.

Ray
 
#136 ·
I probably had a few post in that "epoxy primer wipes off with a lacquer thinner soaked rag" thread from a while back. I actually did the test myself with my steel 34 Ford 4 piece hood which had been primed with PPG DPLF and set in my garage for over six months until I read that very thread. I went to the garage and with a lacquer thinner soaked rag wiped the DPLF right off like it was still wet.:pain:. Cleaned it all off and purchased SPI and never looked back.

Vince
 
#137 ·
In a previous post I asked a question about sandability and if a epoxy formulation with good sandability would lose something on the other end, like solvent resistance or adhesion. My lab guy Steve says you don't necessarily have to lose anything. A lot of times in paint formulations when you change something you lose something .From what I gather in this instance if it did lose something it would be very minimal.
 
#141 ·
Oh I thought it meant that when I have a question I go to the experts and get the answers. Oh silly me. Well one thing after speaking to the lab people I learned a few things,I am not really a epoxy guy. I mostly deal with moisture cure , and two component urethanes. As you probably know I am resurrecting the old zinc rich primer which will be in epoxy. The Mastercoat Zinc Rich Primer will be a little softer giving it good sanding properties, great adhesion, and some flexibility.You all can relax it's not for you guys ,this'll be for the companies industrial accounts.Again thanks, I'm always learning something new.
 
#144 ·
Ok, so I just ordered my first SPI epoxy primer. One thing I noticed in the tech sheet was the 30 minute induction period.

We strongly recommend you activate the epoxy by first stirring very well and then
allowing it to set/ induce for 30 minutes. Stir once again before spraying and the longer
you wait between spraying your coats of epoxy the better.




These two things tell me that it isn't going to totally insoluable for many days, or maybe never if this isn't done properly. I would think, maybe this is the big difference in one test to another.

Brian
 
#152 ·
Brian,
I go out of my way never to answer a problem with SPI on here or respond to an SPI question, as I don’t feel it is right BUT I will this as this may be educational to a point.

You may remember back in 70-90” epoxies did require induction and in short it was an activator issue where not 100% compatible, this was changed and then we had no induction unless you added reducer.

We started the induction deal about 2 years ago or maybe a year ago with putting stickers on top of can, Holy Crap, I bet the tech line had 500 calls from body shops that wanted to know why.
The reason we did this was to help the do-it-yourselfers because we know this.
Induction does make it spray better, not much but a little and induction also helps when the activator is not mixed in good as it must be mixed again before it is put in gun.
Also helps if borderline cold metal as far as curing to a point, as well as perhaps not having proper air filtration on the air system.

You do not have to induce but SPI has acquired a lot of hobbyists over the years and this has cut down on the problem calls.

Pot life is 4-9 days, pour back in painter’s pail (quart mixing cup), do not leave in gun as pigment will settle out in about two hours and all I do is put a gallon paint can on the painter’s pail quart and I usually can stir up and use the next weekend.
 
#146 ·
brian , if you are going to try to build with it let it set overnite in a covered pail . it will build better then . if not the 30 min induction is all you need . especially if you reduce it with urethane reducer .
 
#147 ·
The biggest mistake people make with epoxies and urethanes they don't read the product data sheet. Most epoxies have an induction time anywhere from 30 min. to one hour. With our AG 111 they don't stir the a part A of first ,or the hardner is not stirred in thoughly causiing soft spots in the coating or the coating just generally fails It's always a smart idea to get the product datasheet before you start playing with paint. Thank God today you can usually just get on the computer and get a sheet.As for cure times there are so many variables. Hope this helps.
 
#148 ·
The nice thing is the 24-48 hr pot life. If I have extra left over I cover the mixing cup with foil and store it in the house, and can spray spots I missed or something new that I prepped the next day, or even two days later. Generally I will prep all kinds of little spots to touch up all over the car and will end up forgetting some of them, which is really aggravating.
 
#149 ·
The nice thing is the 24-48 hr pot life. If I have extra left over I cover the mixing cup with foil and store it in the house, and can spray spots I missed or something new that I prepped the next day, or even two days later. Generally I will prep all kinds of little spots to touch up all over the car and will end up forgetting some of them, which is really aggravating.
According to the tech sheet it's 72-120 hours!!

Thanks for the tip Shine.

Brian
 
#157 ·
I would like to go on public record saying a big THANK YOU, to Barry. I called him to ask a few questions this morning and ended up with a wealth of new knowledge. He has once again exceeded my expectations with his kindness and help. I would like to apologize for keeping the tech line tied up for so long, but we had a nice conversation about products and opinions (and a few random things). Anyways, I just wanted to take a second and express my sincere thanks to Barry and all the great folks at SPI for there knowledge, help, hard work, and of course the best products on the market.

Kelly
 
#160 ·
As a regular user of the SPI epoxy, I do go through quite a bit of it. Within the last year alone have started using as a final blocking primer and would also like to give Barry a BIG THANK YOU for such a good easy to use product with excellent results and will continue to keep using this in the future. Only thing that scares me is the fact that most products I take a liking to end up being discontinued for some reason or another, hope that does not happen here.
 
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