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Erratic timing in my engine

9K views 27 replies 6 participants last post by  bygddy 
#1 · (Edited)
Motor is a 383, less then 2000 miles on it.
Was going to start taking the front apart as the previous owner installed loud timing gear set.
Thought I would check the timing first and see where its at.
At idle I cannot get close to a steady reading. The balancer, well everything actually is new, and the line on the balancer is clear. But it jumps so bad I can't get a good read. It looks as high as 30* ish but really I don't know. At 3000rpm it shows 40* and I know this is way too much. With the vacuum advance hooked up it was as high as 50* at idle.
What could cause the jumping at idle? It does have an HEI with an external blaster2 coil and a 6a box. I have read about dial back lights and msd box problems before, but this is the same light I used on several of my cars and dads car with the same msd components and never had an issue. Could this be an issue with the gear drive?
Idle speed is at 1000, could it be the advance coming in causing this?
Problem is when I try and lower idle speed it will stall in gear. Idle set at 900-1000, in gear its at 500rpm.
 
#3 ·
All less then 2000 miles on it. I haven't pulled the cap yet, its a pita as its in an S10, but i wasn't concerned about springs at this point because I didn't think that would cause yje timing to jump around. It does advance fast and the reading is steady as rpm is increased. I'm starting to suspect its got light, or 2 medium springs in it and its causing me to see mechanical advance starting to come in with my idle speed at 900-1000. Tommorow I will crank the idle down to 750-800 and see if that changes it.
 
#7 ·
I still suspect part of my issue is mechanical coming in around 900-1000rpm which is where I was attempting to check it. But regardless the gear drive has got to go now, its so obnoxious, how anyone can hear what's going on is beyond me. The motor could be pinging itself to death and u wouldn't have a clue. So i will worry about timing once this is sorted out, then a Carb change and see what I have.
 
#8 ·
I have a 350 in a s10 and I know what its like to get the cap off the hei. As far as the gear drive goes I know some people use them no problem but I will never use one ever again. I almost lost my engine with one of those and caught it by accident when trying to turn my motor to a certain position with my fan it had a lot of slop in it. Took timing cover off and the dog bone gears that float in the middle was digging into my aluminum cover which was clearance for the gear drive but it dug in it anyways from the floating and my timing got way out of whack all the time and caused surging etc and severe cam walk and I am running a roller cam and it also caused my roller button to grenade as well but got it just in time before it fell into oil pan. Put a new timing double roller chain on and been fine ever since.
 
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#9 ·
Well now lol....I have to keep it at least a month.....wanna play with a bit and see what its like. So will start puling the timing cover tonight. I suck at getting them to seal back up after when I do them in car. But hey, eventually I will get it right....
 
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#10 ·
I have tried that every time, one of my buddies said not to use a front seal at all? Just black permatex? Yah, I have lots of room to lower the pan a bit so hopefully that will make it easier. Comcerend whether the oil pan will seal back up afterwords ....ah well. Right now I'm trying to get the GD crank pulley off without the motor rolling over. Need a helper to jam something in the flywheel but my boy is out and convimcing my 13yr old daughter that she won't die under the car is pain full......
 
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#12 ·
Just to throw my 2 cents in here. My 350 sits in a s10 so room at the bottom is tight and I have done three cam swaps and I never had to drop my oil pan at all even though it has a little room to drop down a hair but I just get everything off and pull the cover off with the pain tight as can be and clean everything up good and I put the timing cover gasket on then put indian head on the gasket then put the right stuff gasket maker on the bottom of the cover and I could get it back on no problem and then just took my finger and wiped the excess gasket maker stuff off the bottom in a gentle sweep and makes a nice smooth gasket after it cures and never had a problem. As far as keeping the flywheel from moving I just took some decent rope and put it through a hole through the flywheel and tied it around the frame close to it and did a nice tight not and got the balancer bolt and pulley on and torqued it down then cut the rope and took it from there. That was my way of doing it and fbirds way is a good way a lot of people use as well.
Eric
 
#13 ·
Used the vice grips, no issue, but now my next issue lol, last time I did this the end of the puller galled the threads in the crank and that was a btch to correct, so now I'm trying to figure out what to do to avoid that, I can't reinstall the crank bolt as its to long for my puller to bolt up to the balancer....
 
#21 ·
Hello since my balancer was new and did not have any groove on the balancer I just used the same crank seal since it was new as well. As far as your balancer puller I don't know how that thing is eating up your threads as mine is similar but cheaper made but it does not go into the crank threads itself just spins at the end of the snout but it never touched any threads and mine was off several times. My piece ended up getting worn out so I had to buy a new one. Mine was brass looking so it had to be somewhat softer then maybe a good quality one. I like the advice on here by using a washer or a nut for it to rid up against and in the future I am going to try it that way in order to protect everything.
 
#22 ·
Looking at your puller there should be a piece that goes on the end for the puller to pull on and protect your crank snout unless its different then my cheapy one that I got at a autopart store for like 15 bucks. It came with a brass piece that goes on the end of the puller and it is a gold color so it had to be brass as it got worn out after using like 5 times and I had to get a new one. That looks like a solid piece and that would be harder then the one I used and that could eat at the end of the snout but I don't know for sure as I have only used the one I got. I was worried about my threads too and I like the idea of using some washers for future use.
 
#24 ·
yeah that is a good idea as I might get a regular size bolt head to screw into the crank and let it dig into it so as not to dig into the cranks itself and the one who posted that is a genius as I never thought of that before. Mine never did do anything to my crank or threads but it was not a hardend piece cause it was brass color and after 5 times using it was done and I had to buy a new one. That is what you get with cheap stuff but I don't work on stuff for a living so I don't always need high dollar stuff.
 
#25 ·
Yah, I bought a removal tool today, and an installer that should be here tommorow. So hopefully I can get the cover on tonight. My only concern now is getting it to seal, loosening the pan bolts looks like its a nightmare.....longtubes in an S10 seems like a terrible idea lol. You actually can't get the oil filter off without moving the headers. So next week im going to order a filter remote. Yah, its amazing how tight everything is with longtubes, even more so that nothing hits or rattles at all.
 
#27 ·
Actually when I got it all apart tonight I can see what might cause eratic timing, everything was together fine, no unusual wear or extra shiny parts. But that dogbone between the cam and crank, well you could move the crank a full tooth and a bit before it would start to move the cam, the amount of movement was ridiculous. So everything went back together well, didn't use a seal at the bottom of the timing cover, used copious amounts of ultra black lol, made a lovely seal around the outer edge as well, so will see if it leaks tommorow night. Wish me luck. Balancer installer tool should arrive tommorow, will get it buttoned back up tommorow night then saterday will bring it to work, replace all the u-joints to try and cure a shudder on accel. Might throw on a pair of 2 chambers I have to give it some more "presense" lol. Then a big show an hour and a half drive away on Sunday.....that's my story.
 
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