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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-21-2013 10:31 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
sorry, I figure most people that are building warmed over engines blow right past the cast parts, otherwise why not use a g.m./ford part as there are millions of them..
and frankly I'd rather a crank that wasn't finish ground.
maybe it me, but if I'm buying a new crank, it's a forged one.
there also is a reason eagle/scat/etc are half the cost of other cranks.
If you want to build a 383 you either have to buy an aftermarket crank or you are forced to buy the GMPP 4340 3.8" stroker crank. These cranks are far from pretty though. Lightening holes off center with the edges of the hole drilled through the edge of the counterweight.

Not too many 400 SBC cranks around anymore. If I needed a 3.48" stroke crank and didnt want to pay a lot. I would be using a stock nodular iron crank, these are excellent pieces for the money.

yes there is a reason that these makers are less expensive which is my point. But a cast crank shouldnt bust in 2 during everyday driving.

But buyer beware.

peace
hog
06-21-2013 09:34 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
sorry, I figure most people that are building warmed over engines blow right past the cast parts, otherwise why not use a g.m./ford part as there are millions of them..
and frankly I'd rather a crank that wasn't finish ground.
maybe it me, but if I'm buying a new crank, it's a forged one.
there also is a reason eagle/scat/etc are half the cost of other cranks.
06-21-2013 08:58 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Im not doubting the validity of your information, and not typically a grammar-nazi; but, are they steel or titanium?
No thats good that you corrected that, they are forged titanium connecting rods, not forged steel rods.

Thanks again, and I will go back and correct that, if the 30 minute timer hasnt run out yet.

Well it did run out.
1)The 2006-2013+ LS7 did get forged titanium rods, forged 4140 steel crank and cast hypereutectic aluminum pistons.

2)Caddi LSA got forged Powdered Metal rods, forged steel crankshaft and cast hypereutectic aluminum pistons with oil sprayers on the underside of the pistons

3) ZR-1 LS9 used forged titanium rods, forged steel crankshaft and forged aluminum pistons with oil sprayers aimed on the underside of the pistons

As an aside, hypereutectic aluminum is simply an aluminum alloy which is higher in the element silicon than the solubility of silicon in aluminum at operating temperature. The solubility point of silicon in aluminum at operating temperature is around 12%. Hyper aluminum pistons usually have between 16% and 19% silicon, at percentages above 25% there is a big drop in strength. Hyper aluminum pistons are stronger than cast aluminum pistons, but not as strong as a forged aluminum piston, although hyper pistons are much less expensive and have much better thermal expansion properties than forged aluminum pistons. Forged pistons must be set up looser in teh bore than hyper or cast pistons as the forged aluminum pistons expand more in the bore. This CAN lead to noises before the pistons warm up, which is not a great scenario for manufactires of production cars and crate engines in which knocking noises are undesiraeable.

peace
Hog
06-21-2013 08:44 AM
AutoGear Im not doubting the validity of your information, and not typically a grammar-nazi; but, are they steel or titanium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
06-21-2013 08:09 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
you link 2 if not three (2 threads on vid) of cast cranks.
that's not really fair, you buy junk you get breakage, both threads was cast cranks. not forgings
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
06-20-2013 06:12 PM
Richiehd
Quote:


And their C/S is crap.
GM Performance :: View topic - (eagle 383 rotating assy) crankshaft broke>final update

I will be avoiding Eagle.

I would rather run a stock cast crank than any Eagle crank.

peace
Hog
There is always two sides to every story, 9 pages of blog, interesting reading. Not so much their poor customer Service as there were some issues with some of their 383 cranks
06-20-2013 05:39 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
you link 2 if not three (2 threads on vid) of cast cranks.
that's not really fair, you buy junk you get breakage, both threads was cast cranks. not forgings
06-20-2013 04:57 PM
Mr. P-Body We use Eagle. Good stuff from my POV. We had issues balancing Scat SBC cranks, and it "spilled over" to their Pontiac casting. Had trouble with pins "walking" in Scat "press-fit" H-beams. None with Eagle in similar builds.

The late-to-the-party Pontiac forgings from Eagle are excellent. We've used several, and they're as nice or nicer than Eagle's BBC stuff. Local racer Bill King (track champ, '09, '11 and "runner up" '08,'12 at VMP "Sportsman" class) has an Eagle forging in his 406 SBC. 300-plus passes so far (mid-low 10s, 2,950 lbs) and no sign of issues. His racing "partner" Gerald Driver, jr. also has an Eagle in HIS 406 SBC (we built them both...). He's not won the championship yet, but has been in the top 3 each of the last three years. Short blocks haven't been touched.

I can't tell you how many boats are "out there" with Eagle 383 "kits" in them.

Sprint car? Gasoline? Carillo, Crower or Oliver. Alcohol or nitro? BME or R&R... Summit isn't exactly the best place to shop for a real race car.

Jim
06-20-2013 04:19 PM
Hogg

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=405844


And their C/S is crap.
GM Performance :: View topic - (eagle 383 rotating assy) crankshaft broke>final update

I will be avoiding Eagle.

I would rather run a stock cast crank than any Eagle crank.

peace
Hog
06-19-2013 10:17 PM
S10 Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by tresi View Post
Eagles are freaking awesome, Want to buy a set. This endorsement is worth exactly what you paid for it.
And this tells me alot. I'm going with the Olivers anyways
06-19-2013 08:52 PM
tresi Eagles are freaking awesome, Want to buy a set. This endorsement is worth exactly what you paid for it.
06-19-2013 04:24 PM
1Gary The sustained high RPM in oval track racing warrant's the need for a class rod/bolt.In oval track racing the lowest dollar crank we use is Howards Track Smart.You should understand that as a engine builder with clients we sell our rep.Not the highest dollar engines,but certainly not the lowest either.The history with Eagle was aside from being out of spec number 2 crank journal was crack or braking in oval track engines.People will post but they have been using Eagles for yrs,Those folks are not using them as you will be.
06-19-2013 02:28 PM
AutoGear Will a good quality Scat rod stand up, if using the proper hardware? Probably, question with this stuff is at what point does the number of stress cycles lead to sufficient fatigue before it fails. And, if it did fail, what is your recourse? What would your down time be and the expense incurred. Oliver may be a safer bet.
06-19-2013 02:21 PM
oldbogie
Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer View Post
I've been searching for new connecting rods for our Sprint car motor and looking at Summit Racing, it seems that the good named brand manufacturers like Lunati, Howards, Callies, Carrillo, etc. advertise most of their SBC rods from around 650 -900hp but Eagle advertises theirs for 1200hp. I think Eagle is over-rating their products. What do any of you think? I have never owned an Eagle product.
X2! When I think of power close to and above 1000, I think Howards, Carrillo, Compstar, Lentz, Oliver, Pankl not companies that all buy universal Chinese forgings as blanks then finish machine (maybe) and put their name on the product.

Bogie
06-19-2013 01:32 PM
S10 Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmsport View Post
I only use Oliver rods in real race car engines.
The quality is impeccable and the price is OK.
For street use, I have used many Eagle and Scat products and had almost no issues, but would choose Scat if I had to choose.
Agree with the Olivers, hard to beat
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