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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-08-2014 07:05 AM
1971BB427
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
machine shops are sales men.. the gear that they make the most margin on is what they'll talk up..
Then why would they rather sell no gear? Your theory doesn't hold water.
07-08-2014 05:55 AM
gearheadslife machine shops are sales men.. the gear that they make the most margin on is what they'll talk up..
07-07-2014 05:46 PM
1971BB427 When I had my 350 done recently, the machine shop I use wasn't very excited about Eagle. I mentioned getting a rotating assembly from Eagle, and they said they'd feel much more comfortable reusing the rotating assembly I had, than using Eagle.
Spoke with another well known machine shop in town, and they also didn't want to use Eagle. Both shops have been around since the 50's or earlier, so I figure if they aren't hot about Eagle, I would trust their opinions.
07-07-2014 01:32 PM
mikethebike61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiehd View Post
Cast 283 crankshaft is very rare. Most all 283's including the 67-68 Z28 were forged. The Z cranks were Tufftrded, while most of the 283 cranks were not.
Learn something new everyday.
07-07-2014 01:12 PM
Richiehd
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethebike61 View Post
. The 1st Z/28's were, to my knowledge cast nodular 283 cranks in fuelie 327 engines to de stroke them to 302 cid. I know of a few that revved 8000 more than once.
Cast 283 crankshaft is very rare. Most all 283's including the 67-68 Z28 were forged. The Z cranks were Tufftrded, while most of the 283 cranks were not.
07-07-2014 11:43 AM
gearheadslife [quote=S10 Racer;1686584]And most likely you are wrong, guaranteed!! I'm not talking about "most" SBC, this is a high hp, high rpm 400ci
07-06-2014 11:13 AM
mikethebike61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
If you want to build a 383 you either have to buy an aftermarket crank or you are forced to buy the GMPP 4340 3.8" stroker crank. These cranks are far from pretty though. Lightening holes off center with the edges of the hole drilled through the edge of the counterweight.

Not too many 400 SBC cranks around anymore. If I needed a 3.48" stroke crank and didnt want to pay a lot. I would be using a stock nodular iron crank, these are excellent pieces for the money.

yes there is a reason that these makers are less expensive which is my point. But a cast crank shouldnt bust in 2 during everyday driving.

But buyer beware.

peace
hog
In support of this post......Ford raced the 289 in Cobra Coupes in 12 and 24 hour races with properly prepped cast cranks and revved to 7000 and slightly higher on occasion. The 1st Z/28's were, to my knowledge cast nodular 283 cranks in fuelie 327 engines to de stroke them to 302 cid. I know of a few that revved 8000 more than once.
06-21-2013 11:31 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
sorry, I figure most people that are building warmed over engines blow right past the cast parts, otherwise why not use a g.m./ford part as there are millions of them..
and frankly I'd rather a crank that wasn't finish ground.
maybe it me, but if I'm buying a new crank, it's a forged one.
there also is a reason eagle/scat/etc are half the cost of other cranks.
If you want to build a 383 you either have to buy an aftermarket crank or you are forced to buy the GMPP 4340 3.8" stroker crank. These cranks are far from pretty though. Lightening holes off center with the edges of the hole drilled through the edge of the counterweight.

Not too many 400 SBC cranks around anymore. If I needed a 3.48" stroke crank and didnt want to pay a lot. I would be using a stock nodular iron crank, these are excellent pieces for the money.

yes there is a reason that these makers are less expensive which is my point. But a cast crank shouldnt bust in 2 during everyday driving.

But buyer beware.

peace
hog
06-21-2013 10:34 AM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
sorry, I figure most people that are building warmed over engines blow right past the cast parts, otherwise why not use a g.m./ford part as there are millions of them..
and frankly I'd rather a crank that wasn't finish ground.
maybe it me, but if I'm buying a new crank, it's a forged one.
there also is a reason eagle/scat/etc are half the cost of other cranks.
06-21-2013 09:58 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoGear View Post
Im not doubting the validity of your information, and not typically a grammar-nazi; but, are they steel or titanium?
No thats good that you corrected that, they are forged titanium connecting rods, not forged steel rods.

Thanks again, and I will go back and correct that, if the 30 minute timer hasnt run out yet.

Well it did run out.
1)The 2006-2013+ LS7 did get forged titanium rods, forged 4140 steel crank and cast hypereutectic aluminum pistons.

2)Caddi LSA got forged Powdered Metal rods, forged steel crankshaft and cast hypereutectic aluminum pistons with oil sprayers on the underside of the pistons

3) ZR-1 LS9 used forged titanium rods, forged steel crankshaft and forged aluminum pistons with oil sprayers aimed on the underside of the pistons

As an aside, hypereutectic aluminum is simply an aluminum alloy which is higher in the element silicon than the solubility of silicon in aluminum at operating temperature. The solubility point of silicon in aluminum at operating temperature is around 12%. Hyper aluminum pistons usually have between 16% and 19% silicon, at percentages above 25% there is a big drop in strength. Hyper aluminum pistons are stronger than cast aluminum pistons, but not as strong as a forged aluminum piston, although hyper pistons are much less expensive and have much better thermal expansion properties than forged aluminum pistons. Forged pistons must be set up looser in teh bore than hyper or cast pistons as the forged aluminum pistons expand more in the bore. This CAN lead to noises before the pistons warm up, which is not a great scenario for manufactires of production cars and crate engines in which knocking noises are undesiraeable.

peace
Hog
06-21-2013 09:44 AM
AutoGear Im not doubting the validity of your information, and not typically a grammar-nazi; but, are they steel or titanium?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
06-21-2013 09:09 AM
Hogg
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
you link 2 if not three (2 threads on vid) of cast cranks.
that's not really fair, you buy junk you get breakage, both threads was cast cranks. not forgings
Not really fair? Sure thats your opinion I guess.

There are only 3 SBC engines that use forged cranks in the last 30 years.
1) 662hp/LS9(forged steel crank/forged pistons/forged titanium rods),
2)556hp Cadillac 6.2L LSA(forged steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged PM rods,,
3)505 hp 7.0L LS7 forged 4140 steel crank/cast hyper pistons/forged steel titanium rods.

Using your logic, all aftermarket manufacturers that produce a cast crank will experience breakage, simply because it is made of metal that is cast in a casting, vs. being forged into shape?

I could have posted pages of issues with Eagle cranks.

Look at the 4340 forged unit, it was out 1-2 thou. from center to edge of the main bearing surface. Thats horrible, but typical of many products manufactured these days.

peace
Hog
06-20-2013 07:12 PM
Richiehd
Quote:


And their C/S is crap.
GM Performance :: View topic - (eagle 383 rotating assy) crankshaft broke>final update

I will be avoiding Eagle.

I would rather run a stock cast crank than any Eagle crank.

peace
Hog
There is always two sides to every story, 9 pages of blog, interesting reading. Not so much their poor customer Service as there were some issues with some of their 383 cranks
06-20-2013 06:39 PM
gearheadslife
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
you link 2 if not three (2 threads on vid) of cast cranks.
that's not really fair, you buy junk you get breakage, both threads was cast cranks. not forgings
06-20-2013 05:57 PM
Mr. P-Body We use Eagle. Good stuff from my POV. We had issues balancing Scat SBC cranks, and it "spilled over" to their Pontiac casting. Had trouble with pins "walking" in Scat "press-fit" H-beams. None with Eagle in similar builds.

The late-to-the-party Pontiac forgings from Eagle are excellent. We've used several, and they're as nice or nicer than Eagle's BBC stuff. Local racer Bill King (track champ, '09, '11 and "runner up" '08,'12 at VMP "Sportsman" class) has an Eagle forging in his 406 SBC. 300-plus passes so far (mid-low 10s, 2,950 lbs) and no sign of issues. His racing "partner" Gerald Driver, jr. also has an Eagle in HIS 406 SBC (we built them both...). He's not won the championship yet, but has been in the top 3 each of the last three years. Short blocks haven't been touched.

I can't tell you how many boats are "out there" with Eagle 383 "kits" in them.

Sprint car? Gasoline? Carillo, Crower or Oliver. Alcohol or nitro? BME or R&R... Summit isn't exactly the best place to shop for a real race car.

Jim
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