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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-20-2014 11:04 AM
smikeb
Positive Seal & O-ring?

OK thanks, I have returned the Umbrella seals, and ordered a set of positive seals with the right dimensions. Now do I need the o-ring seal on the valve stem as well as the positive seal?

Cheers
Mike B
02-20-2014 02:38 AM
64nailhead You need 'positive' valve seals, not 'umbrella' seals. Return the umbrella seals. Basically, umbrella seals are a waste of time.

Positive seals mount onto the guide and the valve stem slides through them. If the guides that are cracked are larger diameter at the top then at the base then I believe that you are going to have a tough time getting the positive seals installed onto those cracked guides without damaging them. The issue is that you won't know if they are damaged until you see if your smoking issue is still present after reassembly.

I agree with others here though, I think the heads need to come off . Good luck with seals, maybe it will help and it is worth a shot.

Jim
02-18-2014 01:02 PM
smikeb
Valve stem seals and Positive Seals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smikeb View Post
So I've got a set of the umbrella stem seals on the way from Jegs, like the one on the left in my pic. Do I need the o-ring seal as well and does it go above or below the umbrella seal? Does the o-ring go in the lower groove on the valve or just on the 5/32" shaft above the guide? This seems odd to me as won't that seal just move up and down with the valve? Its not held in place by anything.

Cheers
Mike B
Sorry I meant 11/32" valve stem shaft.
02-18-2014 09:41 AM
smikeb
O-ring above or below?

So I've got a set of the umbrella stem seals on the way from Jegs, like the one on the left in my pic. Do I need the o-ring seal as well and does it go above or below the umbrella seal? Does the o-ring go in the lower groove on the valve or just on the 5/32" shaft above the guide? This seems odd to me as won't that seal just move up and down with the valve? Its not held in place by anything.

Cheers
Mike B
02-18-2014 08:59 AM
T-bucket23
Quote:
Originally Posted by smikeb View Post
Here they are.
Replace the seals with quality seals and see if it is better. There is not a lot of wasted labor to put the rockers and valve covers back on. I would not mess with the other cylinders at this point as adjusting the valves is a little tricky and it does not sound like you have had experience with doing it.
That smashed seal is probably the root of the issue, when it got smashed it probably also damaged or distorted the positive seal.
read up on adjusting the valves so you dont cause yourself more issues.
02-17-2014 10:00 PM
4 Jaw Chuck Looks like the swaged in bronze liner just cracked the top of the original cast post, likely not a problem. Poor machining practice but not the end of the world, I would be more worried a piece broke off.

Judging from the pics it looks like an oring was placed on top of the positive seal, probably smashing it.

Hard to be positive about anything just looking at pics but it looks like all you need are new positive seals...on all the valves. I wouldnt just do that set seeing how it was done incorrectly...do them all to make sure you don't have to do it twice.

Seals are cheap compared to the labor.

At this point I'm going to tell you what you don't want to hear, pull the heads and make sure there isn't worse you can't see.

Or don't and roll the dice, your call.
02-17-2014 05:20 PM
smikeb
pics

Here they are.
02-17-2014 05:16 PM
68NovaSS No pictures....
02-17-2014 05:13 PM
smikeb
valve stem seals and guides

So I got the retainers and springs off and here is what I found. See pics. The intake valve had a rubber seal with a metal clamp on it (shown on the left) and a small ring seal that was severely deformed above it. The exhaust valve had only the small ring but it was in good shape. In the second pic both guides look to have small cracks on the top. Is it possible that the oil is getting down that crack causing the black oily buildup in the exhaust port? Since the intake had the extra seal that crack was covered up and didn't leak.
I also bought a set of umbrella seals before I started, but now I've seen those ones with the metal spring clip, im going to take the umbrella seals back. What do I call thise stem seals with the retainer? Do I need the little o ring seal too? Does it go above or below the other seal?

The guides don't have any sideways play in them. Are thise cracks going to cause problems?
Thanks again for any and all input.
Mike
02-02-2014 10:56 AM
2old2fast Before you try to remove the retainers , take a 1/2" socket ,place on the retainer & give it a rap w/ a hammer , then use your spring compresser to remove the keeper, a magnet is a good thing to have handy as well as plugging all the holes w/rags where they could fall , they're slippery little suckers !!
dave

before you slide the new seals on be sure to use the protective plastic sleeves to keep from damaging the new seals. After you get 1 spring of , release the air pressure & try to wiggle the valve in the guide to see if it's sloppy loose , if so , putting a new seal on is a waste of time.
02-01-2014 09:33 PM
4 Jaw Chuck Tap the top of the retainers with a soft face hammer to break them loose from the locks, works everytime but you may have to do it a couple times to get them loose. By softface I mean a nylon/polyurethane or hard rubber hammer, brass or AL is a little dangerous and you could bend a retainer.
02-01-2014 07:19 PM
smikeb
keepers won't release?

So I had a go at changing the valve stem seals today. With 80 psi in the cylinder, rockers removed, when I used the spring compressor tool, the valve just opened and the keepers did not come loose. Any tips?
Thanks
01-31-2014 10:28 PM
xzero117
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Mike, I'll take the contrarian point of view.
I always like to get to the bottom of a problem the first time, negating doing it a second time and that means dropping the motor out of the car and disassembling it.
I agree, I chased the same exact problem for months, after checking every last thing on the top end I tore the engine apart and saw that I had a cylinder that needed to be sleeved because of a grove that had been formed in the cylinderwall

there was no way I could of ever found that problem without removing the cylinder head and removing the piston it was way down the cylinder, but not deep enough where i could see it from just removing the oil pan
01-31-2014 08:41 PM
techinspector1 Mike, I'll take the contrarian point of view.
I always like to get to the bottom of a problem the first time, negating doing it a second time and that means dropping the motor out of the car and disassembling it.
01-31-2014 08:27 PM
kc8oye
Quote:
Originally Posted by smikeb View Post
Please elaborate? Is that possible and what do you mean by miserable?
What likelihood do you give that I can get it back together and have everything seal properly?

Anyone else have an opinion?

Cheers
Mike B
it's gonna be one royal PAIN IN THE ***. the chances of getting it back together w/o leaks aren't very good.
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