Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior> Paint> Newbie follies (part 2) - please help me learn from my mistakes
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: Newbie follies (part 2) - please help me learn from my mistakes Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
08-22-2013 12:27 PM
IPT
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopsblown34 View Post
Are you spraying with what I refer to as a Kirby? Pretty much a high powered vacuum but being used as a blower? I've known one person to use one of them and he turned out some killer work but it was always colorsanded and buffed, nothing slick right off the gun. Overspray was minimal though, way better than with my HVLP or RP guns.
Yes, that's what I am using. It laid pretty darn flat in some places. I'm not going to be doing full cars so maybe a little post spray work will be acceptable. At most I'll do a hood but more likely just small interior panels, small parts (like a spiltter for the front end) and black panles for airbrush art.

My first task will be to get the very most I can out of this gun and then determine the next step. So far I have made a massive improvement with Rays advice. I do need a new compressor though so maybe a small detail gun will be in the future. No worries, some more trial and error and feedback for you good people and I am confident my needs will be meet.
08-22-2013 07:14 AM
69 widetrack LOL...Don't think it was me that told "Old Fool" how to set up a paint gun this way 30 years ago...I don't think I was a Rep yet and it would have been CIL for me...damn I'm getting old too.

As far a PPG Reps go...they are like anything else, I've seen good ones and bad ones...They are a lot like the paint they represent and how the paint turns out after it's applied....we only remember the really good and the really bad, nobody ever says, do you remember that average paint job, they sure don't remember that average paint rep either...LOL

(Oh, "Old Fool", I will have that information/schematics you asked about in about 2 weeks if you still need it).

Ray
08-22-2013 05:39 AM
deadbodyman Now see that.......PPG reps ARE good for something ....well,at least they used to be anyways.....
Maybe it was Ray that showed you ....he's one of the good ones ...
08-22-2013 05:14 AM
Old Fool
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Mike, I told him to turn the air cap and spray on the masking paper until it runs...that way he can tell if the fluid is heavy on the ends or the center and what adjustments to make, either more air if it's heavy in the middle or less fluid and so on...it just gives you a better idea for setting up a paint gun than just the up and down pattern.

Ray
PPG rep told me of this setup trick some 30 odd years ago


Dam I am old.
08-22-2013 05:03 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Mike, I told him to turn the air cap and spray on the masking paper until it runs...that way he can tell if the fluid is heavy on the ends or the center and what adjustments to make, either more air if it's heavy in the middle or less fluid and so on...it just gives you a better idea for setting up a paint gun than just the up and down pattern.

Ray
Ahh, I see,I never thought of that.......My mistake.... That might be a big help for me too...That one little bit of info could save a bunch of us. Thanks Ray...
08-21-2013 07:57 PM
69 widetrack Thanks Kelly, turning the air cap 1/4 turn will give you as much information on gun set up, as having the pattern up and down...a flat pattern will tell you exactly where the problem is by watching the runs, if your thick in the middle, you need more air or less fluid, if your thick on the ends, more fluid or less air...for fine tuning, this is a valuable technique for gun adjustment.

By doing this, especially on those pesky light colored metallic's, your taking another part of the tiger stripping problem out of the equation.

I sincerely suggest this method for gun set up, many people just listen and after a while know their equipment, assume that everything is clean, when we have all had experience with that little piece of dried whatever stuck in your gun causing a problem with the way the gun sprays or when you run into that color where no matter what you do, the color stripes..this procedure can most times solve that problem when understanding what happens to a spray pattern under different conditions.

I really hope that this will help, for me it was a little thing I do religiously, 95 times out of 100, the pattern is fine...for the 5 times out of 100, it helps analyze the problem much quicker when you understand how different things effect pattern, both horizontally and vertically...just another piece of information I'm happy to pass on.

All the best.

Ray
08-21-2013 07:04 PM
carolinacustoms
Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Mike, I told him to turn the air cap and spray on the masking paper until it runs...that way he can tell if the fluid is heavy on the ends or the center and what adjustments to make, either more air if it's heavy in the middle or less fluid and so on...it just gives you a better idea for setting up a paint gun than just the up and down pattern.

Ray

That's a nifty little trick there Ray. I'll have to file that one some where for future reference, I never would have thought to turn the cap sideways.....

Kelly
08-21-2013 05:55 AM
69 widetrack Mike, I told him to turn the air cap and spray on the masking paper until it runs...that way he can tell if the fluid is heavy on the ends or the center and what adjustments to make, either more air if it's heavy in the middle or less fluid and so on...it just gives you a better idea for setting up a paint gun than just the up and down pattern.

Ray
08-21-2013 05:45 AM
deadbodyman First ,your pattern needs to be vertical (up and down) you'll never be able to paint a car with a horizontal pattern....Turn the air cap ....
08-20-2013 12:43 PM
cyclopsblown34 Are you spraying with what I refer to as a Kirby? Pretty much a high powered vacuum but being used as a blower? I've known one person to use one of them and he turned out some killer work but it was always colorsanded and buffed, nothing slick right off the gun. Overspray was minimal though, way better than with my HVLP or RP guns.
08-19-2013 12:21 PM
IPT strange - the pics are not showing up for me here on my computer at work. Seems like you were able to see them though. The unit is a Fuji Q4, a 4 stage turbine. It is the most powerful one they have and the one they recommend for shooting heavier paint like latex. I used a 1.4 tip. I looked it up again and I'll correct my prior report in that they report the pressure at the cap is 8.5 PSI. The only way to get more would be too remove the air valve from the hose. I doubt it causes much restriction but it might be worth taking it out anyway.

I should have kept better notes, but it was hard to do with all that gear on. I recall you saying that a really thin fluid will have a pattern heavier on the ends and lighter in the middle (I think that's what you said....). So I tried to lower the fluid output never was able to get it to spray heavier on the ends of the pattern. If I recall correctly I closed down enough that I started to lose fan width and then it was spraying really dry. Looks like I'll be buying some more cheap paint and doing some more testing. Since it won't be finish work I can just use the respirator and spray outside.

What do you mean by the pattern looks "flat"? Flat in what respect? (edit) sorry, just re-read, you said "fat". It should be thinner? The pattern I think was about 1.5 to maybe 2 inches tall when it hit the cardboard. I just sprayed a bit to get it to really drip so it spread. That silver patch in the last pic is probably the most accurate.
08-19-2013 08:55 AM
69 widetrack And we are back. Overall, it appears as though the center is heavier than the ends. You mentioned on a previous thread that you where using a "turbo" gun if I'm correct and that your maximum pressure is 8 to 10 pounds at the gun. You also mentioned that you couldn't raise your pressure, so I need to ask a question and perhaps you have given me the information but...what size of compressor are you using.

At first glance of your spray pattern it looks as though you need more air...or less material being put through the gun. The pattern seems a little "fat" as well, more pressure could even out the center. Also remember that the gauge you have may not be completely accurate and the 8 to 10 pounds is a guideline more than a hard and fast rule. More pressure or less fluid and practicing technique will help reduce Orange Peel

Clear coat....Clear coat does like to breathe at least for 6 months depending on temperature, I wouldn't stack the panels for some time now. Clear coat can be repaired anytime after it has cured, for example, repairs are done on vehicles that are 10 years old or older, the repair works fine as long as the clear makes for a good substrate. Clear coat like anything. deteriorates over time, harsh sunlight (UV's) can deteriorate clear as well as salt or other abrasives that come in contact with clear coat...even just daily use over time will effect the integrity of clear coat.

You've waited for a bout a week, the clear should be set up enough to do a repair. Clear can be polished anytime after it has set up. The longer you wait after set up, often the harder it is to cut and buff clear...also the brand of clear you use has a bearing on polishability. We can discuss products at another time if you like...but...the quality of the product has a direct bearing on how the product polishes. Some clears are actually designed to be polished.

Hope this helps...keep the questions coming and I will answer to the best of my ability.

Ray
08-19-2013 03:17 AM
IPT
Newbie follies (part 2) - please help me learn from my mistakes

Okay – so now the project is “sprayed” and it’s been about 4 days since the clear was shot. I got much better results (thanks to your input Ray). That said, I still had some issues and of course that raised more questions!

Rather than throw a whole bunch of questions out there at one time maybe I’ll start with one mini topic at a time so we can hash it out and move on to the next. In brief there are two main topics. They may of course be related in some ways or not. Dust removal, sag removal, and general clear coat optimization after spraying. Then gun set-up gun problems, spray technique and of course the possible causes of orange peel.

First question(s): just so I can clarify. I shot some 12x16 inch panels and these will be stored for future use. What time constraints do I have with regards to the clear coat “curing”? Specifically, can I stack these on top of another within 48-72 hours or is there a time period where they need to have an air-space to cure? Also related, is there a time period where I need to address the flaws in the clear coat or can I get to it “sometime” down the road? Messing with the clear coat will probably be done on the first engine cover (the side that didn’t get messed up) and it is at about 7 days now (it'll make a good practice piece for wet sanding or buffing).

Maybe based on your (clear coat time frame) answer we’ll have to get back to the clear coat repair topic first. However, what bothers me is the way the clear laid down but I’ll get back to that. I want to talk about that horizontal spray test pattern. It seems to me the right side was a little light. Maybe I am over reading this. Is this normal (see spray patterns below)? If not, what would cause it, how can I fix it, and is there a way to test it without having to setup my spray booth, don respirators, and then mix and spray the same paint again?

Clear test pattern



Silver: top fluid held back. It made the fan smaller and clumped it up in the middle. So I opened up the fluid and tweaked best I could.



Misc other patterns: I sprayed black first so it had the most tests. I hoped for the black and silver it would be the same but one was metallic and the other not so it did change things.


Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.