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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics> Hot Rodding a 92 Toronado FWD to RWD
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-25-2013 06:55 AM
vinniekq2 Fun is what modifying cars is all about.Being a good fabricator is what allows you to do more.Your project has no particular rules to follow.
Your project is more than I would want to tackle,because;It will take a long time,,,,
I'm a driver kind of hot rodder.I like the fast car "now".I would buy good heads rather than port my own,etc.
If you want something outrageous and you have skills ,build it.

HOW?...
good question, look at everyone else different car and take pictures
make the same or similar or
combine 2 different ideas from 2 different cars

Heres an example of what I did years ago and then a guy like you came along and made his better

almost 20 years ago I bought a portable saw mill( turn small trees into usable lumber)The machine could cut 20 foot logs up to 3 foot diameter into lumber using a horizontal bandsaw blade.
I bought the unit,it came with a 25 horse Kohler 2 cylinder engine.I bought a small Kubota 4 cylinder turbo diesel and adapted it.That was my idea of hot rodding and well with in my ability.
My soon to be friend,looked at my mill and asked if he could take pictures.
He soon made a copy,not a clone just similar.Instead of an expensive brand new turbo diesel,he used a very small used car engine(more power too)and instead of using a known shiv system for the banb,he used "FREE" space saver tires.He also made many other low cost improvements.His final finished machine was not only faster with many improvements,it was 1/4 the cost.
you decide where you fit in for a project that you have in mind.
remember that every finished product is somebodies back yard design. enjoy
10-25-2013 04:37 AM
SleeperToro Juice and Cookies club seems to have reacheda decision.

Think it'll just be a good old American V8. The "Engine Control Module" will be my ear, one of those pocket screwdrivers and my right foot.

May not be anything exotic to it other than it being a RWD 92 Toro, but it'll be fun to play with.

Too old for anything that isn't fun.
10-23-2013 12:51 PM
AutoGear https://www.google.com/#q=PRO+STREET+CHEVY+CELEBRITY
Hard to get " RWD 92 Toronado". Try more common FWD only cars. Its just badge engineering, your dads toronado wasn't much different than an 86 celebrity eurosport. Just about any car mag from the early 90s is going to have articles on them. Plenty of Pro Street Chevy Berettas, Dodge Daytonas, Dodge Omni's and Chevy Celebrity's were built in the late 80s and early 90s. Rick Dobbertin built a Pro Street Pontiac Sunbird J2000 back then too.

Mopar used to offer a RWD "kit" for the Daytona compact, I'd assume it was to build a Pro Stock car.

I always thought it'd be cool to go with a turbo Mitsu Eclipse motor with a TH350 or T56 behind it in a light car. Incredible power, RWD orientation and light weight.
10-21-2013 11:52 PM
SleeperToro
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
go back to the Cobalt video? Ask dad if thats what he would have done? If you have time/$/skills then so your something different,or do a beige clone of everything common...
What would you suggest?
Have seen many Colbalts, mid engine corvairs, and V8 Vegas, but no RWD 92 Toronados yet.
10-21-2013 08:42 PM
64SS327 No need to scramble your brains trying to figure out how to make a stock engine management system work. Megasquirt MS2 or MS3 could easily be used to run a Northstar engine or any fi engine for that matter.
10-21-2013 08:17 PM
vinniekq2 go back to the Cobalt video? Ask dad if thats what he would have done? If you have time/$/skills then so your something different,or do a beige clone of everything common...
10-21-2013 04:29 PM
astroracer The metric chassis has a ton of aftermarket support and a 1.8 difference in width is nothing. That's less then an inch per side and is easily remedied with the right width and offset wheel.
Post some pics as you get it going.
Mark
10-21-2013 04:12 PM
SleeperToro Just a quick update.

Looking like a GM metric frame, channel in frame rails to keep ride height low.

The car already has somewhat of a fake driveline tunnel in it not the flat floor so using the stock floor pan means everything will bolt right back in.

Wheelbase is the same at 108". Width seems to be in question. Toro is 1.8" wider so looking at getting tires to fit in stock wheel wells.

Want to learn more about the Northstar before using one.

Toying with a 350 or maybe a ZZ 427 from GM performance.

Still hearing more why's, whatevers, and Think you are crazies.... But when I sit in that car and talk to Daddy about it he says go for it!

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum and all the input.

Project journal to follow so you can watch the insanity!
10-14-2013 11:32 AM
Northstar T Even though they are very cool, I can't honestly recommend the Northstar engine. I've built two different cars using them. one was a IMSA bodied Fiero (mid/rear engine) with a 98 4.6 Northstar and (Fiero) 5 speed. the other, which I still own, is a 23 T bucket. the T bucket has a 99 4.6 with my own design itb injection, and T-5 5 speed. the N* bolts up to the GM 2.8 V-6 style bellhousing by fabing one offset mounting bolt (easy), and requires a re-drilled or full custom flywheel. the PITA part of the N* is the electronics. Stock ecms are totally useless for engine swaps due to the way they have the diagnostics built into the intrament cluster, and the fact that no-one has hacked them to do away with pollution controls etc. my Fiero used a modified 7730 GM ECM and ran well, but this limits you to pretty much stock engine parameters. my bucket T has a Holley HP computer system set up by CHRfab (linked earlier) and does allow for more engine mods, but it's going to be a self taught tuning program for you, as help is not gona come your way easily for this project.
The N* is a very cool engine in many ways, but I'll never do another one due to the numerous headaches involved. if you decide to use one anyway, pm me and I'll try and guide you through some of the hurdles I jumped through to make one work outside of it's native environment.
10-14-2013 09:02 AM
SleeperToro Lots of conversation and thought going on about this one. Much like here it ranges from Why..to Lets try it!

Have a friend at the DMV checking to see how it would be handled.
Just building a custom frame is one option that I'm looking at.

Have a 3.8 V6 in it now..may look at using it. Want something fun but dependable, know you can't have it all.

The GM metric cars seem to be the best fit. Monte Carlos, Cutlass, Regals etc.

Wheelbase is the same at 108". Width is closer than anything else.

Looking at C3 and 4s they are about 10" off on width.

The old Monte Carlo SS is the front runner so far for a donor car. Thoughts are that it was set up for the big V8 already.

Appreciate all the input and ideas here..keep em coming as each one adds to the conversation. No telling yet what I'll wind up with. It'll be unique, that's for sure!
10-14-2013 08:41 AM
AutoGear There were plenty of front drivers back in the early 90s that were made into "pro street" cars. LOTS of berettas, and the occasional Chevy Celebrity/ Olds 88 etc; and the Dodge Daytona. Is a Fox Body Fairmont the same general size? When in doubt, just make a basic ladder frame and grab a Mustang II front suspension. There are others. Rear Suspension could be almost anything. Id suggest coils to leaves; and a 3 or 4 link.

Before you get to hacking, look into the emissions, registration and insurance. In some states, you better have impeccable records, including vin numbers for the vehicles you crib used parts from.

You may find that swapping in a front drive SC 3.8L V6 and throwing boost/nitrous at it
OR, you could go avant garde and get an Ecotec turbo 4 banger and make absolutely silly HP.
10-09-2013 11:11 AM
SleeperToro Thank you all for the words of encouragement input, and sharing of knowledge.

Glad to have found this forum. Will start a project journal for sure once we decide on something and get moving.

The thrill of the chase is on!
10-09-2013 05:33 AM
69 widetrack I've thought this would be a great project from the beginning and when Joe suggested the Northstar...well, I think that is just way cool. The Northstar is a bit of a finicky engine and has had it's problems with Head gasket issues and the like...but, I will find that site with a lot of information on hot rodding the Northstar and with what your buddy has to offer....it will be a blast.

There are several years that are more desireable than others...apparently the 93 and 94 have some inherent problems if I'm correct. As I mentioned earlier I have a Northstar 4.6 in an Eldorado ETC (Touring Cupe...more HP but the ECS has more torque)...when I first got it...the Wife thought it was a boat...now I can't pry it out of her hands...she's become a Civic eating machine....(My Wife more so than the car...LOL)

Love the project and keep all of us up to date.

Ray
10-09-2013 04:38 AM
SleeperToro looking at specs online..not nearly wide enough. Swap meet fund raiser if anything.

C6 only thing close..going to do that may as well have something custom built.

Aurora investigation under way
10-09-2013 03:36 AM
SleeperToro Thanks for that!

Toro has 4 wheel disc can use them but probably same low quality stuff.

Go fast cars need stop fast brakes.

Toro wheelbase = 108" Worried about width on Vette as well.

May pick it up if I can talk Him down some even if it won't work. I'll take it apart and haul to the swap meet in November..Add a few bucks to the project fund.

Like the Aurora platform idea as well. Since it replaced the Toro I would think dimension are close. Good to have options.

Spoke with a friend in Arizona last night about the Northstar...said he put a few with twin turbo setups in some sand cars...smoked the tires at 800HP on wheel Dyno so never got a true reading. Guess who's building my engine...Yeah baby!

Haven't had the boys this excited in a long time. Going to be a fun project no matter how we do it.
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