So I'm building a rat rod and have almost everything done except the
brakes and steering. My first question is, do I need a proportioning valve
for my brakes or is it already integrated in the master cylinder? I have been
told two separate things by reliable sources so I am confused. The frame I
am using is an S10 frame with front disc brakes. One large line going to the
back brakes and two separate lines for the front (one to each side). The brake
booster and master cylinder I'm using is from a Ford Ranger. Is all I need is a
"T" for the front brake lines, or do I need an actual proportional valve, or is it
already integrated in the master cylinder?
My next question is...Do I need a manual steering box if I want to do manual
steering? The stock power steering box is currently installed, but I cut the lines
and hosed them together to just do manual steering to avoid having to bulk up
the front of the motor with the power steering pump. Will it be too hard to
drive by doing manual steering this way or would I greatly benefit by getting
a manual steering pump to go along with manual steering? Is it bad to do
manual steering with a power steering pump installed, and just cut off and
hosed together?
Prop valve will be in the combination valve(safety valve) that should be mounted to the frame , where all the lines go to. If you don't have one go to the boneyard and grab one. It will have 2 ports for lines coming in, and 2 going out for the front brakes and one that goes to the rear, which splits on the rear axle.
You can use a PS box in a non power setup.It will have a quicker ratio but will be a chore to turn if parallel parking ( maybe unlikely)
What would happen if I did not use a proportioning valve and only a T?
Would I get too much fluid to the brakes?
A buddy I've been talking to about it that knows a lot about this stuff says
that I don't need one because the master cylinder has one already integrated
in it. He said they started doing it at some point from the factory.
Another guy tells me I do need one. If it were true that there is one
integrated in the master, what would happen if I added another proportional
valve like you guys are saying?
Keep in mind that a "factory" proportioning valve is designed for a specific vehicle with a certain tire size, weight, and CG (among other things). Adding any old J/Y prop valve will likely cause more issues than not having one at all. On a custom vehicle, it's best to add a fully adjustable "race" type valve that you can set once your car is finished. I've never seen a master cylinder with the prop valve built in it, post a link...
Keep in mind that a "factory" proportioning valve is designed for a specific vehicle with a certain tire size, weight, and CG (among other things). Adding any old J/Y prop valve will likely cause more issues than not having one at all. On a custom vehicle, it's best to add a fully adjustable "race" type valve that you can set once your car is finished. I've never seen a master cylinder with the prop valve built in it, post a link...
Would it hurt to go without one at all?
I have a T fitting that the front brakes can go into and then to the
master...but will that be sufficient enough? What damage could it do if
not?
A Junkyard prop valve will be OK as long as you get one from a same build vehicle. A valve from a system that is still closed should be fine.You wouldn't want one from a car with the system laying open for months.
As suggested and I would agree, it would be best to use an aftermarket adjustable one to optimize your braking system, since you are changing tire size and such. It makes it a bunch easier to get it right with out a lot of messing around.
Don't run it without one. Chances are the rears will lock up first and all the time without one.
The valves your friend is talking about may be the residual pressure valves. They are built in to the master. They keep a small amount of brake pressure on the system to keep the clearances in check at the brake pad /shoes to the drums/rotors....so the pedal is higher and has a good feel.
Remember the end of the master with the large reservoir (regardless if it is the front or rear of master ) is for the disc brake end of the system as the discs need the extra fluid due to the fact that the fluid takes up the space behind the piston as it moves out from pads wearing down.There are no adjusters on the disc brakes.
What I think you need is a metering valve for the front disk brakes. It will not let the front bakes come on till around 75lbs is applied to the back brakes. It takes that much pressure to overcome the tension of the rear brake springs. Without it the front brakes will apply to soon. A proportioning valve will retard rear brake application. You will have front lockup to soon. The key is to have as equal pressure front and back as you can. On my latest car I have no valveing at all, they work great. Don't over think it.
What I think you need is a metering valve for the front disk brakes. It will not let the front bakes come on till around 75lbs is applied to the back brakes. It takes that much pressure to overcome the tension of the rear brake springs. Without it the front brakes will apply to soon. A proportioning valve will retard rear brake application. You will have front lockup to soon. The key is to have as equal pressure front and back as you can. On my latest car I have no valveing at all, they work great. Don't over think it.
Keep in mind your front brakes do more of the braking then the back,, Ran a adjustable proportion valve on the past 20 cars with no problem at all.. No need for a metering valve,,:nono:
What is a JY prop valve? If I could get away with not using anything but a T, I would. You guys are saying it's a MUST to use some type of prop valve? Why are some other car guys I've been talking to saying I don't need one at all? My buddy that's been helping me out with my rat rod is building a 47' ford truck with disc brakes and said it came from the factory without any kind of prop valve. Why would I have to have one?
Not to sure why your asking here if your buddy know's.. Coming here asking for help and not taking what is told to you is something else.. Don't try to re-invent the wheel here...Do what you feel you must do.. I said way more then I should have...I'm done here.. Good luck.. Remember your life and other people's lives are on the line here..
You don't necessarily need a metering valve to keep the front from applying too soon, or a prop valve to keep the back from locking up .
A well balanced braking system can be easy but it wont be as simple as a just putting in a "T" for the brakes.
The metering valve is mostly for wet or Icy conditions to keep the fronts from activating too much and too soon, which could cause a spinout as someone mentioned before.
Also the rear brakes generally take about 25 percent of the braking pressure to activate the brakes compared to the pressure to activate enough clamping force on the front disc brakes to create an equal (or close ) amont of friction to create equalstopping force.
Do what you want, when or if it doesn't pan out , you can come back to the thread and reference it for any trouble you may have.
The combination block has the prop valve built in, and a safety valve, in the event that one set of brakes goes bad it shuttles the inner valve to block the system that has failed to allow the other system to remain functional. A safety thing.Kind of a good thing.
Do your homework on your braking system. Then get busy. Its best to understand how it works, so you can make the right choices. :thumbup:
I only came here for further advice about my situation and to figure out why I'm getting different answers about it. Thanks for all the info and advice, I'll probably look for an adjustable prop valve or metering valve and try it out.
I only came here for further advice about my situation and to figure out why I'm getting different answers about it. Thanks for all the info and advice, I'll probably look for an adjustable prop valve or metering valve and try it out.
This is the internet after all. I've learned to look at all the responses, whittle those down to the top couple consistent replies, then research those further away from the forum...
Call several different brake system manufacturers and ask them for advice. They do it for a living. The braking advice I've seen here is scary. Fact is I probely wont give any more advice at all on brakes, would hate to be the cause of a problem. Joe blows system and your system are two different things. What worked on one might not work on another. I say call several because there are some fly by night guys out there, go to established buisneses. Like was said your life is on the line along with your family.
Is there a certain adjustable proportional valve I need, or would all
function the same no matter which one I was to get? I noticed Wilwood
was a popular choice...
i use the s10 brake system on many . if you do not put a valve in you will regret it. your using an s10 frame why not use the correct brake system . a system with no valve is one hard stop away from disaster .
I'll definitely get one. My brake booster is off a Ford Ranger (only used it
because I got it free from a friend). I figured with the trucks being about
the same size and all that it wouldn't matter. From what everyone is saying
it's looking like an adjustable valve would work best. I can easily get one
off a Ford Ranger though.
i have a couple of guys who collect and crush . every time they get an s10 i get the brakes and the steering column . i pay 20 bucks for the brake system. 20 for the column. i dont shop at salvage yards , they want way too much. they sell parts. my guys sell scrap steel.
Gotcha. I'm going to keep looking around for an s10 system then.
I'll just switch it out with the ranger one I have on there and used
a proportioning valve and booster from an s10 if I can find one.
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