|09-13-2004 10:18 PM|
The rest of the story
Well, I said I would post the fix if I found it......I found it. I finally managed to find the problem, isolate it and fix it without rebuilding the whole van and spending a lot of cash unnecessarily.
While I probably could have gotten away without replacing the coils, wires and spartk plugs and PCV valve I think after 100k miles it was time anyway and I'm only out about 125 bucks instead of at least 700 at the dealer.
After all of the above was done the car ran just one day with out the same problem....missing and lack of power as well as unusual transmission behavior.
I pulled the intake manifold off and found that the exhaust gas holes from the EGR valve in the lower manifold were plugged (4 of them). So when ever the EGR valve opened the gas couldn't bleed in. I would guess that the computer changed the mixture to allow for full flow and has no way of measuring low flow. The motor tries to make up for the lack of power, the foot goes down on the pedal and the transmission down shifts.
Anyhow I cleaned them out and vacuumed out the manifold with my wife's Hoover and put it all back together. It has run better than it has in a long time and gets better gas mileage to boot. I'm sure the Ford guys could do the job in less than the 4 hours it took me but it was 98 degrees in the driveway too.
All in all it wasn't really a bad job and a good mechanic having done this once before could turn this one around in a short time , make himself a good profit and have a happy customer.
Unfortunately the local shop didn't have a clue (Ford guys) and would have been on a lenghty fishing trip trying to fix this as it didn't show up on the computer diagnostics.
there you have it ....the rest of the story.
now in another state with another job
|05-04-2004 11:52 AM|
here we are again
y'all are probably getting tired of all this van crap. Me too. My wife has been driving the crap out of it whether it runs good or not so I haven't been able to do the R&R on the manifold.
however...I did spray a bunch of water and carb cleaner around the manifold but no real luck.
I got a new PCV valve. Upon pulling the old one off I looked inside it and it was full of crud. Not a lot of flow either. The next thing was the short line (about 4 in) It is soft and flexible..so much so that it collapsed with very slight vacuum. It too was full of crud. Well I replaced these and checked the other lines to make sure that they were ok. I then took the rubber cone shaped connector hose off and cleaned the inside out where there is oil accumulating. I also cleaned the temp sensor with elec contact cleaner. The MAP sensor part looked very dry and clean so I left it alone. This all being done I took it for a drive. It seemed much improved with only a slight shudder around 50 in OD. So it is better. I still think there is a problem either in the EGR system or a manifold leak..maybe both. At the earliest time I plan on doing the mainfold but she keeps driving it all the free time I have.
I really want to try to isolate the problem so I can say ...yep this was it, so I will continue chasing. Hopefully I can post a list of what all went on with this PIA.
I did find where Ford has a replacement valve cover to fix the oil in the PVC system starting about 1999 so there is a problem with it. Mainly the lines are not vertical long enough to let the oil drain back to the valve cover.
Thanks again for all the help
|04-22-2004 09:15 PM|
|Crosley||most of the manufacturers seem issue TSB's on new tools for a vehicle and the procedure to use it. they add up over time|
|04-22-2004 08:29 PM|
Hate to tell you mstngjoe but you can enter any Ford vehicle and come up with that many TSB's. Every time a repair is doccumented Ford keeps track of it. When multiple repairs occur for the same thing they issue a TSB (Tech Service Bullitin) simply to give techinicians a heads up for future repairs. It is a great service tool that all manufactures use, Ford just really issues alot of them. Unfortunately it seems as though you just got a lemon, they're out there.
|04-22-2004 11:11 AM|
I'm so tough I laugh at the cold rain
I'm so tough I wear my dirty sleevless skin tight shirt, grimey dirty holey skin tight jeans (not baggy)have a 5 day black muscle beard, long straggly gray hair, grease up to my arm pits and a scowl that Arnold himself would be proud of. When I work on my van if it p....s me of I just bend over and roll it up on it's side so I get at the underneath. I don't open anything...just rip it off and throw it in the rapidly accumulating pile along side the house. My wife says the neighbors want to complain but they are afraid I'm a litle crazy and I will throw a fit if they come over. Little do they know.....
I'm sure that most ..no all cars and trucks have a long history of problems. It probably boils down to keeping the unit that you can live with take care of it and run it into the ground. Also probably why most of us have 4 or 5 cars and trucks in various state of running. You would think a good automotive technician would graduate up to the doctor level and make a killing fixing these abominations we are getting off the show rooms. I tried fixing and learing about these things and people would think I caused the problem they brought to me to fix. Maybe all the fine people on this forum could get together and form a big repair and re engineering house and make a killing doing what they really like to do.
Well back to the front junk yard.
thanks again for the help guys. bear with my humor.
|04-22-2004 09:44 AM|
I won't be any help with your problem I'm afraid, but I had a '98 Windstar.
I bought it used in 2000 with 21k on the clock. Extemely clean and ran great............for awhile. Then nothing but problems and $$$.
Not to rain on your parade but when I came across the 1998 Ford Windstar TSB listings, I decided to sell it.
I put about 20k miles on it and had it in the shop 6 times for major repairs. All of which were on the list. I dumped about $2k into it and said "No more".
It's gone now. Someone else's problem.
Just my luck it will run forever with no more problems now that I sold it.
|04-22-2004 09:25 AM|
what happened to my lift pump
Lacking a digital camera I will have to use prose to discribe the guts of my lift pump (fuel transfer pump). Some may not have a clue as to what this pump does so in a few words, it simply transfers fuel (diesel) from the tank to the main high pressure fuel injection pump. Now the MHPFIP (MP) is not very good at suction so this is the job of the lift pump. It provides about 12 to 15 psi constantly to the main pump. The excess fuel is used to cool and lubricate the MP. Without this your MP dies and your wallet is 3000 lighter.
I installed the new lift pump immediately after removing the old one being a bit frustrated about how difficult the bolts were to remove, and didn't pay much attention to the old one.
I finally got the truck running and all was fine. The lift pump is nothing more that an electric motor attached to a small 4 vane rotor in a cavity. About 1 1/4" dia..pretty small. Hot rod electric fuel pumps are exactly the same. Carter, Holly and a few others. There are 3 bolts that hold a cover over the rotor cavity and a 3/8" inlet and outlet opening. A banjo type fitting is used in either end to connect the lines. The pump cavity and the motor housing are crimped together so cutting them apart is a big job. No need yet. Anyway upon removing the cover I found a 1/4" ball bearing wedged between the vanes and the wall where the fuel enters the cavity. Not only that there was hole wallowed out big enough to stick your pinky in. Also there was a screen about like window screen with a matching hole in it. The ball bearing apparently is part of the check valve system from what the local diesel guy said. He had never taken the cover off one and does 10-15 a week!!! for years!! Since I haven't cut the d...m thing apart yet I would guess that there is/was a passage cast into the pump body where ball bearing is dropped into and staked over at the top. This would prevent a leak back situation. Now this is a really hoakey way to do this. Probably ok on a hot rod that doesn't see the vibration of the diesel. But man after making diesels as long as Cummins has and with as many of these they have had problems with I sure would think they would do something better than this. For ex. tap the hole and screw in a plug with a hole in it. You can buy Allen set screws like this cheap. Secondly, surely don't mount this pump on the side of the diesel motor. These things hammer all the time not gently roll like a hot rod motor. I can just see this ball bearing flying around inside the housing. No wonder it wallowed out the wall. This pump should be mounted on the frame in rubber isolators. again cheap like 6 bucks for 3 of them list price. I tried hooking up the pump to the batt charger and it spins like mad it will pump volume but no pressure. Obviously due to the big gash in the vanes from the ball bearing. There were no fine particles anywhere in the pump or the filter so they had to be pretty small...hopefully they passed through my MP without damaging it.
There are at least 2 places that make better lift pumps however both are pretty pricey like 600 bucks. both mount on the frame and come with a complet bolt in kit. Today I just couldn't afford one but next May (1yr warr ends)
I called the Dodge dealer to see if they might help me out on warrentee......was I dreaming or what. So as I was awakening I called Cummins.... right along side the ear. I don't know which one told me to take a flying leap farther.
ps it is not possible for this ball bearing to come from the tank as the fuel passages around the banjo fittings are too small for it to pass through...I checked this. This pump is mfg for Cummins by Carter in the U.S. of A.
pss The dealer wanted $266 for this pump and the diesel shop $185 so there is a bit of mark up here!!!
Well I now have a h....va fish tank pump laying in my shop. I guess it is a live box pump for you fish guys LOL Probably last a life time in a bass boat
I talked to another shop re; the van and suggested removing the EGR valve and pipe and try to clean things out. He said these do get partially plugged sometimes. As long as I'm working on the manifold I'll do this too.
I post again later.
|04-21-2004 02:21 PM|
hey I like broken stuff and carnage what was inside???
|04-21-2004 02:10 PM|
whooo hooo automotive success!!
HI, Finally I've had automotive success after a month of failures!!! whoo hooo I got a new Cummins lift pump yesterday at the local diesel shop. 185 bucks. I probably could have done a bit better but this was in my very neighborhood so with travel shipping etc it was ok.
This one has year warantee unlimited miles. I told the mgr to make sure he had one in May of next year!! LOL He said he would.
Idle pressure is 14 psi inlet
13 psi at the filter outlet should be fine I think.
Here is how I installed it.:
7/16 ratchet wrench or 7/16 combination wrench
10mm ratchet wrench
11/16 or 17 mm x 3/8 socket
short 3/8 ratchet
long flop head ratchet optional
optional long 3/8 extension +3 inch extension both with wobble end
how to do it:
disconnect wire on pump
open clip on engine dip stick and move the tube over a bit
remove inlet line bracket bolt
loosen 3 pump bracket bolts loosen inlet line banjo fitting
loosen outlet banjo fitting at the top of the filter and at pump
remove 3 pump bracket nuts and washers
remove inlet banjo fitting and washers
remove filter banjo bolt and washers
lower pump away from bracket and lift out. carefull of dirt in the fittings
transfer outlet line from old pump to the new pump careful of washers
leave slightly loose 1/6 turn
install new pump with 2 studs closest to the block
install 2 nuts and washers and tighten
tighten outlet line banjo fittings
install inlet banjo. becarefull of washers and dirt leave loose
rotate inlet line bracket over hole in pump bracket
install bracket bolt
tighten inlet banjo fitting, tighten bracket bolt
install new wire harness (if needed)
install wire harness bracket and tighten 3rd pump nut and washer
reclip the motor dip stick tube
your are done ...easy huh.
ok you need to prime the pump and filter
I installed my pressure gage without the gage and submerged the open end in diesel fuel
turn on the key to on for 30 seconds. this is as long as the lift pump will run turn the key off
wait about 1 minute and repeat
you should have seen a few bubbles this means the pump ran
I pulled the line and closed the filter up
start the motor..it may knock like h..l for a few seconds..normal
the idle will be 200 rpm low for about 1 minute as it purges the air out of the system
turn the motor off and plug in your gages
start it up and check the inlet pressure 10-15 is ok I guess
check outlet..you should have less than 4 psi drop. more replace the filter
Take it for a test drive and kick some a....
flat rate is only about .8 on this and probably is about right
all of the pump bolts on mine had heavy loctite on them and backed out of the pump instead of the nuts coming off. It took a lot of wrenching and swearing around to finally get the studs out of the pump and off the bracket.
the book says you need to remove the starter but the local diesel mech put me on to this. He had 8 of them to do this week.
oh yeah. If you have a big brush guard do yourself a favor and cut a board about 1 foot x 2 feet and lay it across the guard and the radiator. It is much easier on the knees.
I have another story about what was inside the old pump but I'll post that later.
now for the rest of the fleet.
|04-20-2004 05:08 PM|
sorry i was talking more so on the po301 and 4 codes those will prolly stay on but if it has been cleared i dunno just something weird maybe also the egr system as they get plugged i think someone also stated.
|04-20-2004 05:03 PM|
Well now that the family problems have been dealt with I can get back to the fleet problems. I don't get migraines but I'm working on them. Here is some inside info...buy Bayer now I'm headed over to the gro. store for a new supply of asprin.
60 convert...I have reset the codes so many times that the button is getting worn. The way I've been lead is that the codes won't reappear unless the fault occurs 3 times during a single start of the motor.
As it turns out the down shifting has stopped but the motor still runs rough and will kick on the check engine lite within a mile or so.
I'm going to make a major effort tomorrow to test everything again and possibly replace 1 or both of the IMRC servos. Then that failing I may try the manifold r/r.
Mean time the d... infamous lift pump is out of the d...dodge diesel so I have to replace that tonight..absolutely for sure as this is my last running vehicle. The local diesel shop assured me that it is less than an hour job. The mech said it is possible with a cresent wrench and a screw driver. The last time I heard about a no sweat job it took the better part of a week and 1/2 a set of special tools.
aren't cars and trucks fun?????
thanks for all the help
well I have to get started.
|04-20-2004 01:01 PM|
if it was missing and then you changed all the parts out with out clearing the codes they would still be there now even after the problem is fixed. I don't know how much more i would chase those problems down???
|04-17-2004 10:14 PM|
This sounds like a fine thing to do on a rainy Saturday. LOL I'll go over to AZ in the morning and see if they have a couple of the IMRC servos. I'm sure I have enough tools to do the manifold so I'll pick up what ever gaskets are needed and plan on taking this apart. I have to do it soon or it will get to blame hot out side and my Willys has flat told me he is not sitting out in the hot sun while I play nursmaid to the van.
My wife said the van ran ok this morning when it was cool but acted up later . It didn't down shift like it has been but she said it did lose power but not as bad. I think the pointer is settling in the area you suggested...the mainifold EGR passages and these intake manifold runnner controls.
I sure do appreciate all of the help. I'll keep you posted.
|04-17-2004 01:46 PM|
I don't think those IMRC valves cost that much. Probably not a bad idea to replace it. It should have a small 'R' on it to designate it is the right IMRC, the left one has a small 'L' stamped on it's mounting bracket (usually). If it failed before it will most likely fail again. In you intake duct by your air cleaner is your MAF sensor housing. The sensor itself is usually removable on Fords with a tamper-proof Torx socket (tamper-proof Torx screws are like regular Torx screws but with a nub in the center so a regular Torx socket won't fit). If you remove the sensor itself from the housing it is cleanable with regular carb cleaner and we usually blow them dry with an air gun after cleaning. A clean MAF will do wonders for an engine. Make sure you have a new PCV valve in her to witch will help reduce blow-by from getting into the intake tubing. I would still consider removing that upper intake plenum, you should be able to do it with a basic manual and hand tools. This will allow you to examine the lower intake ports and check for those EGR passages, do a little cleaning, and replace the plenum to lower intake gasket which are notorious for causing vacuum leaks when they get old. You should be able to remove the upper plenum with the throttle body still attached to the upper plenum on most cars, you just need to disconnect any linkage, vacuum hoses, etc.. Keep us informed.
|04-17-2004 12:49 PM|
I chased down the IMRC and found the vac motors I guess you would call them and moved them by hand . The back side one (bank 1) moved freely however the front one (bank 2) seemed to stick at about 1/4 in travel. I wiggled it around a bit and it seemed to free up. The test is to apply vac to the ports on the vac motors but I diddn't have any tubing the right size. (Later today) I think the Zone has these. I also found more oil inthe rubber belllows to the air cleaner. I wiped it out again and sprayed elec contact cleaner (not carb cleaner) on the sensor in the bellows. Hope that's ok. I started the car and let it warm up and it seemed to run ok. I feel a very slight unstableness in the idle. I put it in drive and set the e brake and stepped on the foot brake and floored the gas. It pulled pretty good and didn't miss so maybe the problem is gone temporarily. I really suspect this IMRC so I'll vac test it alater today. My wife needed the car again today so she drove off early this morning. She said it ran the best it has run in a month. Maybe those 2ndary shafts are the problem. I'll shag after them later today when she gets home.
thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate it. I'll post a summary of all this so it will be in the archives. Maybe I'll get to work on the Willys for a while today.
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