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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-14-2004 05:21 PM
mitmaks id be happy to work in any body shop. i need $$
05-14-2004 04:53 PM
Randy Ferguson Sorry Barry,
I tend to get a little carried away!!!!!!
Just hurry up, will ya!??!
Barry, I posted this for you last night, not sure if you read it.

http://hotrodders.com/showthread.php...345#post269345

I should have titled the topic differently, It's too closely titled the one I posted just a few days ago.
You asked me a few weeks ago about copying an existing part without harming the paint. This post should answer that for you.

Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
05-14-2004 04:41 PM
BarryK
Slow down!

Randy, Randy, Randy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slow down! Were trying to get past the "rattle can paint job", the "bodyfiller over acid etch" and is that "$50 gun as good as the $600 gun"
We will get there! Keep your pants on!
05-14-2004 04:10 PM
Randy Ferguson
Me thunks ur all rong!!

The RIGHT way to do it is forget the stinking, nasty, no count body filler and learn to metalfinish EVERYTHING.
Do yourselves a favor and say this to yourself as you go to sleep each night for a week!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!
BODY FILLER SUCKS!


The one and only time I saw body filler applied directly over Vari-Prime self etch primer, It blew right off after it was blocked. The guy sanded the etch primer first, probably with 80grit, but when he went to blow off the dust after blocking, the filler blew off in big sheets. One thing you guys need to keep in mind, is that all this crap we do in the production/collision body shops day in and day out isn't the BEST way. It's the FASTEST way. Walk into a really good restoration shop and your heads will spin!! They don't practice production shop methods. I'm so sick of working in a body shop I can't stand it!! Can you tell??? Low quality standards set by the collision industry drives me nuts! Not that we cut that many corners where I work, but I am subjected to it constantly.
Boy! This one sure swerved, didn't it!!!

Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
05-14-2004 09:20 AM
BarryK
Quote:
Originally posted by mitmaks
the proper way to do it is to fill/do bondo work on bare metal then spray where metal shows with self-etching primer, not spraying on bondo, then spray with primer-filler, then sealer and base coat/clear
Really!

Thanks !!!
05-12-2004 10:52 PM
mitmaks the proper way to do it is to fill/do bondo work on bare metal then spray where metal shows with self-etching primer, not spraying on bondo, then spray with primer-filler, then sealer and base coat/clear
05-12-2004 09:35 PM
Blowing on Flames SJU, PRIME OR NOT TO PRIME??? If you are using acid you should never put polyester products over it. Even fully cured (if you want to call it that or gassed out is the proper term) it will push that ploy off eventually. I have come across some non poly based fillers that can (so they say) go over acid. You need to read the tech sheets or call the product manufacturer if you are in doubt. I would never recommend filler over acid.
I prefer to put filler over bare metal (as troy has said). However, if the project is going to sit bare for more than a day or two (as Centerline mentioned). I use acid then I prime before my filler. I have totally given up on epoxy
after they removed the lead. I don't care what anybody says... It is not the same stuff without it. There are much better ways to go these days.
SJU... I would make a few phone calls to get all the tech info on the products you are using before going forward. They are the people that will write the warranty check if their products fail using their procedures. If you need help with contact names and numbers..PM me anytime.........Good luck...... Bryan
05-12-2004 09:16 AM
Centerline
Quote:
Originally posted by troy-curt
Anything you apply to bare metal to seal it will trap moisture, if it is present at the time of application.

Of all the thousands of gallons of filler that I have used, I have never had any problems with moisture or rust underneath it when applied over bare metal.

If you have moisture problems, you need to use some kind of humidity control.
I agree, however a lot of shade-trees wind up doing bodywork over several weeks (or even months) and the surface never gets protected until the car is totally ready for its first overall coat of primer. These are the people that need to be concerned about body filler over bare metal.

Centerline
05-12-2004 08:06 AM
troy-curt Anything you apply to bare metal to seal it will trap moisture, if it is present at the time of application.

Of all the thousands of gallons of filler that I have used, I have never had any problems with moisture or rust underneath it when applied over bare metal.

If you have moisture problems, you need to use some kind of humidity control.

Troy

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05-11-2004 04:58 PM
Centerline
Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
But you need to educate yourself on the acid etch primer as far as putting body fuller over it. Do it yourself but don't give that advice to other people as that is a major problem waiting to happen both short term and long term.
I still disagree. When I worked in the industry we did it every day and I've never had a problem with filler over self etching primer. I will admit that there could be a problem if the primer isn't fully cured which can happen if the tech is in too much of a hurry but in 99% of the cases it works just fine.

Centerline
05-11-2004 01:35 PM
BarryK
Quote:
Originally posted by Centerline
I disagree. Using body filler over bare metal promotes rust. The filler is porous and it can and will trap moisture under the filler which will allow the surface to rust over time. This is the exact reason for using either a self etching primer or epoxy primer over the bare surface prior to doing bodywork.

Centerline
Your right the best idea is always put body filler over epoxy but in his case (learning it really don't matter. Long term 10-15 years it will. Most body shops still put filler over the bare metal for everyday production work. I always spray epoxy first but only thing I do anymore is show or restoration.

But you need to educate yourself on the acid etch primer as far as putting body fuller over it. Do it yourself but don't give that advice to other people as that is a major problem waiting to happen both short term and long term.
05-11-2004 08:51 AM
SJU
prepping

I think what I'll do is finish spraying the car with the etch primer then spray with an epoxy primer do the fill work, sand and spray with a primer surfacer/sealer?
I appreciate the quick responses.
05-11-2004 08:12 AM
Centerline
Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
you can put the glaz or bodyfiller over bare metal or epoxy, your choice
I disagree. Using body filler over bare metal promotes rust. The filler is porous and it can and will trap moisture under the filler which will allow the surface to rust over time. This is the exact reason for using either a self etching primer or epoxy primer over the bare surface prior to doing bodywork.

Centerline
05-11-2004 05:58 AM
BarryK If your using enamel just let it be. The epoxy over it will make it a lot stronger. Its the urethanes that cause the melting problems.
If you were to take it off 80grit on da will remove acid etch in no time.

you can put the glaz or bodyfiller over bare metal or epoxy, your choice
05-11-2004 05:37 AM
SJU
prepping

Thanks for the help. I know its the old way, but I may use acrylic enamel paint. Does that make any difference? Should I remove the etching primer? If so what is the best way? Is it better to do the filler work on bare metal? I think I have something called evercoat glaze.
I need step by step instructions as I'm confused at this point. It seems like different places tell you different things or leave something important out.
SJU
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