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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-27-2004 08:16 PM
coldknock I suppose I came off kinda harsh sounding in my first post. No friction here dude. Just pointing out the obvious problem with the no topic thread.

I enjoyed no topic but to be honest I was happy to see it off of the front page. Good to see you taking a more active role with the site.

09-27-2004 05:46 PM
Jon You both need each other. You need them to learn. They need you to carry on their heritage.

k2mooch -- age has little to do with it. If you (or the age group with which I assume you are associating yourself), had a great deal of automotive knowledge, then you would have more power.

It's different in some of the computer forums. Many of the younger guys have more of the knowledge, and they get more of the respect.

I am not claiming this is a perfect situation. I do think it is a reasonable one though.

I think both young and old have to compromise to reach middle ground.

HOWEVER, I do believe that it is often the older guys that make a great deal of the compromises around here. I believe that if the younger generation made a greater effort to display their willingness to compromise, then it would go a long way.

Frankly, it's easier for me to understand your viewpoint, as, when it comes to age, we are very close. Nevertheless, I can tell that the wishes of the older members of the board are now being inadequately represented. Hence, I am looking to strike a balance.

Diversity, different opinions, and contrasting beliefs are what we are all about. However, there must be a balance so that one set of beliefs does not outweigh all the others.
09-27-2004 05:35 PM
Getting a little ageist here aren't we?

I thought this would cool off and we might reach a nice compromise.

But this IS starting to sound awfully political.

As Neal Stephenson's character says in the Cryptonomicon "There's a strong smell of politics in the air sir!"

If I understand you correctly you are saying that the *ahem* elder members are what are driving this "crackdown".

Thats all very well, and as much as I respect the great knowlege and experience of the old rodders, they are not where the future of Hot Rods lies.
The future lies with the young kids on here that are bringing enthusiasm and new blood to the field.

This is starting to sound very much like the young folks here can no longer expect the respect they are expected to give the older members.
I hate to see this happening.
Perhaps some of the older folks shouldn't be quite so enthusiastic about "encouraging" the younger members to accept their views and values. Young people have to gain life experience of their own, darn few are going to stop thinking and just accept someone elses morals, viewpoints, or values because someone says they should, whether that person has built a hundred Rods or not.

It's starting to sound like this isn't going to be a place where a diversity of views is welcome.

Perhaps I am mis-reading this, I sincerely hope so, because until now this has been a great site and a good forum.

But it's looking grim.

09-27-2004 05:30 PM
k2mooch So I have to devote my life to automotive technology, AND become a certain age before people will respect and take me seriously?

Sorry, I guess I just learned the difference between 'credibility' and 'acceptance'. I just thought I had it all figured out. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

09-27-2004 05:12 PM
Jon The situation is more politics than you think. It's just not a money-based political system like you are accustomed to.

The older crowd possesses the larger portion of automotive knowledge. Thus, they have more power and say over the social atmosphere on the board.

It's yet another way that "Knowledge is power".

If you want to tip the political balance in your favor, just make it so that you possess the greater amount of automotive knowledge. This can be done either by increasing your automotive knowledge (years of study, practice, and patience), or by decreasing their automotive knowledge (lobotomy, blunt blow to the head, or long-term exposure to cable TV). Either way, you will then have more influence on board decisions and day-to-day governing policies.
09-27-2004 04:59 PM
k2mooch It's becoming more and more apparent to me that the internet has no politics at all. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is NOT a democracy. It's more like a dictatorship.

Sorry, but MORALS can't be ordered or requested. Rules can be laid out and followed, but under protest. This is pretty much the general consensus around these parts nowadays every time we hear about 'raising the bar' so this website can become an icon of (insert drumroll) "The American Tradition of Hotrodding".

Well here's what happens when you raise the bar. (one man stands clapping in an empty auditorium)

09-27-2004 04:31 PM
chevelle_502 I think you could look at this place like you would a bar or club with the current hot topics of language and rowdiness. On one hand you have your regular crew that buy a lot of food and beer but they get rowdy and run some of the other customers off. On the other hand you have the larger crowd of people that spend some money but get kind of tired by the rowdy crew. (I am not insinuating anybody on this board by any means). Then there are the bouncers ( moderators) whose job it is to sift through the people and determine what is allowed and what isn't. The owner has to find the balance in the situation (Isn't this what you were talking about Jon). He has to keep BOTH sides in check. The owner must determine how to handle the people to find a middle point and decide when to throw someone out. He also has to determine the right people to be the bouncers that help handle the crowd while at the same time keep them in check so they dont get a little overzealous. Now I am all for keeping the lounge under a loose atmosphere by all means. I just believe we are all looking out for number one here. None of these issues are important enough to me to leave or rant about, but I do understand the points that people make. That's why WE'RE not the Admin, Jon is, he makes the decisions and the boards lasted this longer under his control so I'm not gonna holler out revolution by any means.
09-27-2004 04:12 PM
All in good time.

You can't fight human nature and only time will tell if this site does well under the new rules. Jons house need's Guests...without guests there is no house to visit. So don't chase everyone away.....JON.


Rat Rods Rule!
09-27-2004 12:58 PM
akm all i need is the History channel and Animal Planet to surive. i really don't watch much TV.
i think i heard that in the movie "The Sweetest Thing", lol.
09-27-2004 12:45 PM
bowtiebabe72 Hey! Aaron....days is awesome...alright, maybe not.
09-27-2004 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Jon
I think A LOT of our members agree with what you just said. I believe we can preserve the fun environment, but drop the soap opera.

"these are, the days of our lives"
09-27-2004 11:21 AM
Jon bowtiebabe -- cool, glad to hear you're not out the door for good yet.

Originally posted by bowtiebabe72
I guess I just really don't know what to think or say...this is just an internet forum really, but I have fun on here during the day. I don't want to leave whatever friendships I have made on here, but I also don't want to read the soap opera that is the lounge.
I think A LOT of our members agree with what you just said. I believe we can preserve the fun environment, but drop the soap opera.
09-27-2004 11:16 AM
bowtiebabe72 I don't know if I am leaving forever. This site has INCREDIBLE tech advice, which is what drew me to the site in the first place. I think I just need a little break from the lounge for awhile.
I just want everyone to get along and when the largest topic is basically fighting...I just cannot deal with it. I will be checking back periodically into the lounge, say what's up, and seeing if all the drama has calmed down. When it does, I'll be back.

Again Jon, the tech forums are great and you are to be commended for them. Even the most obscure question is answered in them.

I guess I just really don't know what to think or say...this is just an internet forum really, but I have fun on here during the day. I don't want to leave whatever friendships I have made on here, but I also don't want to read the soap opera that is the lounge.
09-27-2004 11:10 AM
Originally posted by fat50
Is this to weed out us simple folk?
I certainly hope not. Just an attempt to weed out the lewd and profane junk-talk threads.


Thank you for the comments meanroy. I understand what you mean about archiving threads. This is a decent practice for tech threads, but when it really comes down to it, I feel that "no-topic" style threads dilute our archives, for many of the reasons you mentioned. Those kind of threads are fun, and largely harmless, but when they begin to dominate the Lounge, they need to be curtailed.

I agree too that sexual innuendo is acceptable. But it should remain just that -- innuendo. Sexual talk and flirting are natural, normal human stuff, but those topics are best when they are carefully hinted at, not blatantly discussed with no elegance or grace.

The age/generation gap is an especially difficult obstacle to overcome. It is normal/reasonable/common for our older members to adopt a Fundamentalist outlook. I could certainly see myself turning out that way in a few decades. Many of our younger members have completely opposite viewpoints, and this is normal too. Connecting these generations is a formidable challenge, but it is necessary to pass on hotrodding culture, knowledge, and experience. My opinion is that the older generation makes the most sacrifices and compromises for peace around here, but what else is new?

I liked your Lounge analogy -- that is a good one. Bunch of guys joking around in the garage, but watching their mouths because wife, mom, Uncle Mike has just stopped in. And I agree too that Draconian solutions are generally ineffective around here.


bowtiebabe -- I'm very sorry to see you go. I wish that we could make every member feel good about this place and want to participate, but I know that it just isn't possible. I understand that we will be losing some members as we strive to exemplify a higher standard, but I feel that what we stand to gain outweighs all that we can lose. Hopefully though, you will check in on us down the line and see what we're up to.


Ghetto Jet -- I agree with you. This board is a pretty cool place, and I often wish that I could kick back, put my feet up, get to know people, and just hang out! However, it's very difficult to balance personal wants and professional needs, so I try to err on the side of caution. Nevertheless, I will be posting more in the coming weeks as part of my duties as our newest Lounge moderator, so you should get a few chances to pick my brain.
09-27-2004 10:50 AM
Ghetto Jet Jon while your reading every thread looking for content to edit participate some, like the other mods. Let everyone get to know who you a little.
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