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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-20-2004 11:25 AM
machine shop tom Elgin Cams is not the same company as Elgin Industries (the company who makes the cams we are talking about).

Federal Mogul (Speed Pro) buys their cams from various companies.

The old Wolverine grinds are available through Clevite brand engine parts. At this point, I don't know WHO is making cams for who anymore. Perhaps Cstraub can enlighten us there.

tom
10-20-2004 10:56 AM
pgtr I just tried elgincams.com - seems to be up at the moment. All I saw listed were Chevy SB hyd cams, no hydr roller retrofits listed and of those listed, nothing jumped out as a match.

I have heard that F-M makes cams for other labels but don't know who.


---

BTW What is F-M's 'history' w/ making cams? I saw where Crane sold the old Camshaft Machine Company (they had Wolverine/Blue Racer) to F-M a few years ago but kept the Wolverine/Blue Racer names(?). In effect are F-M Speed-Pro cams essentially what would have been the old Camshaft Machine Company Wolverine/Blue racer cams?
10-20-2004 10:03 AM
machine shop tom I have a tech line that I call to get their cam card specs. However, I can't give that number out. Perhaps if you call your local parts store, you can give them your part number and they can call for you and have the specs faxed to them.

tom

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pgtr
[B]Indeed - thanks Tom!

In re-reading their online specs and your post I may be mis-understanding their terms. They include "Lobe CL" in their specs. I presumed that was intake Lobe Center. Is it that or is it Lobe Separate Angle?

These all four 'retrofit' hyd rollers they offer and am researching...

CS1061R Pro-2K (Lobe CL 112, 273/288, .433/.462)
Intake C/L 108
CS1070R Pro-3K (Lobe CL 110, 288/284, .462/.470)
Intake C/L 106
CS1071R Pro-5K (Lobe CL 108, 306/306, .480/.480)
Intake C/L 106
CS1073R Pro-3K (Lobe CL 104, 275/275, .458/.458)
not listed
QUOTE]

Those look like Elgin grinds. However, the Elgin website is down. But I have an old catalog. I have added the Intale C/Ls to you list above. Elgin's phone # is 1-800-323-6764

tom
10-20-2004 08:49 AM
pgtr
Need F-M Speed-Pro cam INTAKE-CENTERLINE Specs

Thanks again Tom - much appreciated! OK I understand F-M SpeedPro calls LSA, 'Lobe C/L'. Actually I've read specs before that use this term but I'd forgotten the terms interchange and confused Lobe Centerline w/ Intake Centerline.

Q: What I'm after is 'Intake Centerline' for these 4 cams. Anybody know?

I'm informed that their print catalog does NOT contain Intake Centerline any more than their website. So driving 20 miles to town and hitting a few parts stores in hopes that one might still have something like this in print would likely be a waste of time and gas.

Anybody worked w/ these cams, timed one or seen any other printed material that gives add'l specs like Intake Centerline?

thanks
10-20-2004 07:21 AM
machine shop tom
Quote:
Originally posted by pgtr
...and all I needed was a clarifification of terms used by Fed-Mogul and either the LSA or Intake Lobe Center on a few cams.
Sorry about that. If you read my answer the LSA for that cam was 112.

Since apparently I am guilty of giving too much information for some people, I will no longer spend my time answering questions here anymore. I have enough to do with my paying customers and those with legitimate and sensible questions who call me on the phone.

tom
10-20-2004 06:47 AM
DoubleVision Re read my post, where did I say decking the piston has something to do with the ring height? I didn`t, I said SOME SAY.
Furthermore, IF I had a catalog I wouldn`t have mentioned it, but I don`t have a need for a catalog since I don`t run a machine shop or build engines 24/7.
10-19-2004 10:51 PM
pgtr ...and all I needed was a clarifification of terms used by Fed-Mogul and either the LSA or Intake Lobe Center on a few cams.
10-19-2004 06:36 PM
coldknock The simple solution would be to go into a parts store and ask to see the Federal Mogul parts catalog. I have no problem letting someone browse for specs and answering any questions they have.

Larry
10-19-2004 03:13 PM
machine shop tom It is not wise to limit one's parts knowledge to that what is found on the internet. (Good)Parts stores will have the information. It's a double-edged sword. If a parts supplier has limited information on line, he is limiting his customer base. Those that search only on line miss a lot of valuable information.

That's where counterman and machinists come into the equation. Give them a chance (maybe a parts sale or two) and they'll be happy to help you find the information you need.

I find that those who limit their parts buying to mail order houses and internet companies often get the wrong parts and information. By the time they come to me, they have wasted a lot of time and money.

tom
10-19-2004 03:00 PM
edge
Quote:
Originally posted by machine shop tom
IF you read the Speed Pro catalog, they list the dish/dome volume, compression height (which tells you if they have been decked or not), etc.
What about those of us without access to a catalog? I searched the internet for the specs on their piston #H602CP40 and could only find what compression would be with a 64 cc head, etc. No dish volume. Based on what I could find, it appeared to be a 16 cc dish (calculated), but when the box came, it indicated 12 cc on the label.

Goto Google and enter "Speed-Pro #H602CP40" and see how many hits you get. Then how much information is actually available. Ed www.edgesz28.com
10-19-2004 02:52 PM
pgtr Indeed - thanks Tom!

In re-reading their online specs and your post I may be mis-understanding their terms. They include "Lobe CL" in their specs. I presumed that was intake Lobe Center. Is it that or is it Lobe Separate Angle?

These all four 'retrofit' hyd rollers they offer and am researching...

CS1061R Pro-2K (Lobe CL 112, 273/288, .433/.462)
CS1070R Pro-3K (Lobe CL 110, 288/284, .462/.470)
CS1071R Pro-5K (Lobe CL 108, 306/306, .480/.480)
CS1073R Pro-3K (Lobe CL 104, 275/275, .458/.458)

I guess I need 'BOTH' LSA and Center Angle (as well as some clarification of terms :-) ) to calculate other things like IVO, IVC, EVO, EVC for comparison and graphical plotting on my spreadsheet (not perfect but better than nothing).

And a couple more question if you know much about these cams...

Q: Are these all dual-pattern or dual-profile cams or ...?

Q: My understanding is they use a material in these cams that is compatible with stock distributor gears and therefore no swap of distributor gears is required?

Basically I'm researching possible dual-pattern hydraulic-roller retrofits for an early 70s 350 SB Chevy. In a nutshell: ~9.3:1 CR, 1.96/1.5 valves, 4 spd, 3.36 R. Purely a street driven vehicle and would like plenty of broad torque starting somewhere between idle and 2K(max) up to around 4500-5500(max) w/ a reasonably smooth idle. I'm NOT looking for HP bragging rights from the dyno nor high rappin' RPMs for this application.
10-19-2004 02:23 PM
machine shop tom Specs are as follows (CS1061R)

RPM range: 1200-4500

Duration @ .050": 197/210
Adv. Duration: 273/288

Valve lift: .433/.462

Lobe Separation 112

Overlap 57

I can probly get more info at home tonite if you need it.

tom

Quote:
Originally posted by DoubleVision
I find this post rather interesting, and why is because there guilty of the same crime with other parts such as pistons. There`s lots they fail to mention. for example they fail to mention that the basic hyper 4 valve relief flat top pistons for a 350 sbc has .020 off the deck height, but other companies are guilty of this too, there is no good reason why there done this way, some say it`s because of a ridge on the cylinder, I`ve ran countless engines with ridges and the correct compression hight piston and never once broke a ring, others say it`s because the block gets decked everytime it gets rebuilt and this isn`t true either, in my years of building engines I`ve had 2 decked, and I only get it decked if it needs it. no one doing a basic rebuild is going to spend $100 on a deck job if the block doesn`t need it.
Other pistons they carry also don`t have any info on them, they have a coated skirt hyper piston with a D-dish but they don`t mention what the dish volume is. so in the end, I`ve become a little leery of there products, there`s too many things they fail to mention.
IF you read the Speed Pro catalog, they list the dish/dome volume, compression height (which tells you if they have been decked or not), etc.

Decking the pison has NOTHING to do with ring height. The ring lands are in the same position in relation to the pin bore centerline. They deck the piston to compensate for the possible compression increase due the overbore, head milling etc.

The information on the alloy used in the piston skirt coating, ring sizes, ring set part #, etc. is there for those who know where to look for it.

tom
10-19-2004 02:04 PM
DoubleVision I find this post rather interesting, and why is because there guilty of the same crime with other parts such as pistons. There`s lots they fail to mention. for example they fail to mention that the basic hyper 4 valve relief flat top pistons for a 350 sbc has .020 off the deck height, but other companies are guilty of this too, there is no good reason why there done this way, some say it`s because of a ridge on the cylinder, I`ve ran countless engines with ridges and the correct compression hight piston and never once broke a ring, others say it`s because the block gets decked everytime it gets rebuilt and this isn`t true either, in my years of building engines I`ve had 2 decked, and I only get it decked if it needs it. no one doing a basic rebuild is going to spend $100 on a deck job if the block doesn`t need it.
Other pistons they carry also don`t have any info on them, they have a coated skirt hyper piston with a D-dish but they don`t mention what the dish volume is. so in the end, I`ve become a little leery of there products, there`s too many things they fail to mention.
10-19-2004 11:23 AM
pgtr
Fed-Mogul Speed-Pro hydr roller retrofit cam?

Anybody know much about these? These are the Federal-Mogul speed-pro hydraulic roller retrofit cams. I'm looking at their Pro-2000 and maybe pro-3000 cams for an early 70s SB 350. Nothing radical, maybe the CS1061R.

Their site doesn't provide much in the way of specs - no LSA or separation angle for example. They also don't mention specifics about the type of distributor gear.

Google doesn't show diddly for info, articles, writeups etc.

I don't see them advertised, mentioned much at all etc...

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