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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior> Wetsanding Clear and Metal Flake on Edge
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2006 03:52 PM
baddbob The pure gold PPG base isn't a heavy flake, I've used it before and it's just a basic gold basecoat, so any flakes even if they were standing on edge would easily be buried after two or three coats of the wine. Maybe you got some dirt specs when painting the gold which are now high spots that are being knocked off when you colorsand the clear? Are these spots consistant in size and shape? round? sharp? Also it could be some wrinkling of an undercoat like previously mentioned. A picture would sure shed some light on the problem.

The sad news is there's really nothing you can do short of doing the whole thing over. 3-stage/candy paint jobs are nothing the amature should tackle--many professional painters have problems getting these products on evenly. If someone wants a candy job done I usually try my best to try and talk them out of it, eventually the car will be scratched or chipped at some point down the road and repairing this stuff is usually a real challenge. Save the candy jobs for show only vehicles IMO.
01-20-2006 01:46 PM
Bee4Me So you have creaters,not fisheye's. Fisheye comes from airborn or placed contaminates. Like boat said. OIL is a big one from the comp.
I believe you got crap in your air supply or thinner in the gun from cleaning.
Hook an adapter fitting in the hose coupler and blow it against some white c'board or such and SEE what comes out. Better filtering may be you savior here.
Other issue is cold temps and not enough flash time between coats.
Screw "recommended" in cold weather,best to do a touch test and go with it.
With laying that many coats of clear,I doubt seriously you had any metallic sticking up.Flake,maybe,metallic,nope.
I believe your original "fisheye's" were dirt specks or contamination.
BIG problem is,You used fisheye elim.
NOW, you HAVE to keep using it or it will never come out right.
I don't know who came up with this "snake oil" but they should have to repay every paint job it's screwed up.If your getting fisheye's,you better find out WHY instead of trying to "cover" them up with some crap product.
01-20-2006 11:50 AM
boatbob2
spray painting

ive only seen this happen 1 time,so its very very rare. a guy was painting the boot stripe on a yacht,maroon was the color. when he finished spraying,he had a ton of fish eye. as the paint was not dry,he wiped the paint off with reducer. then he painted again.., same thing.we were both pulling our hair out,he wiped the paint off again. and i tried to paint the stripe using my gun and compressor. came out nice no fish eye. then i used his gun and my compressor on another panel. no fish eye.the only thing different was the compressor.. he pulled the compressor head down and found oil on top of the cylinder head..the rings were bad,causing the oil to be sprayed out with the air.a new compressor cured the problem...
01-08-2003 06:28 PM
super i know this may sound funny i had something like that to happen to me once and it was static elec.
i had to unhook the battery and droup a chain over the rear end making sure both ends of the chain are on the ground they also make a spray to stop it to most paint stores have it in stock
01-08-2003 05:21 PM
paintman1 Now i understand. Well, sanding the clear and reclearing wont fix any problem with the metallic. If the metallic is standing up on end you might have used to fast a reducer. When spraying a complete use a overall reducer. This keeps the base wet longer to let the metallics lay down. As far as your fish eyes, how long did you let the base dry before clearing. That can cause fisheyes if you applied to clear to so. I use dupont everyday , stay away from fisheye killers. Causes more problems then anything for me. If the surface is clean , you give proper flash times and make sure no foreign substances are on yourself, fisheyes will not be a problem.
You might have to sand the car down,wetsand with 800 flat, then start over with the gold.
01-08-2003 05:20 PM
one off just read your post after i posted.
is it possible that the first two colors had a reaction,sort of a wrinkling effect?
01-08-2003 05:12 PM
one off yah
paintman is right.metalic paints don't portrude through clear and they usely lay flat unless you know how to make them stand on edge for special effect. sounds like you had problems stabilizing your toner. that should have been delt with before any finish clearcoat. maybe dirt, fisheye, strange reaction two brands of paint is what your running into. hope you don't have to start over, is the color blochy?
01-08-2003 05:10 PM
Phillip27 Let me start over the first application of paint was done as you outlined , Gold no sweat, Red looked good at first, after first coat of Clear the spots appeared "the effect of metalic standing on edge resisting clear". So now what? after I saw the problem in the first coat of clear I let it cure over night and Wet sanded it with 400 grit. Attempting to remove as much of the metalic on edge effect as possible, hoping against all hope, that perhaps another coat of clear or two would lay over the problem areas after sanding. During the sanding processes I noticed ares wher the red needed more blending so since I had sanding with 400, I applied a little red at 125% reduction before applying the subsequent coat of clear. There were no reaction issues with this method. The only remaining problem is the pin head size craters which I was intialy trying to get the clear coat to fill or lay into. I used a fisheye additive in the 2nd and 3rd coat of clear just on the off chance that it might aid the clear to flow over these pin marks. Again the Color looks great, it the pin marks I would like to get rid of, hopefully without stripping the product all off the car and starting over from scratch. I don't mind taping off the car and applying more clear if needed I just wat to save my base work unless that's not possible. Mind you the product cost to date is nearly $2000.00 in paint products. The 7800s is $275.00 a gallon

Thanks Phill
01-08-2003 04:53 PM
paintman1 I dont understand the procedure you used. It sounds like you sprayed basecoat over your clearcoat. And that you sanded the clear between coats. Why? I would have sprayed on the gold base until coverage was achieved. Then sprayed on your red midcoat until desired effect, and sprayed on your 3 coats of clear giving about 10 to 15 minutes between coats. After the clear dries overnight you could have sanded it with 2000 grit wet sand and buffed it.
01-08-2003 04:44 PM
Phillip27 As far as I know the metalic Pure gold base is like any other Metalic Base normal metalic. Blending was done over the first and second coat of clear but not in the the final coat of clear. The Wineberry red is translucent base, I'm assuming that because of the sanding between 1st and 2nd applications of clear I shouldn't have to sand through the final coat of (3rd)clear and thus risking any color issues.

I sanded the clears at 400 grit between the first two coats. And it seemed to me that the spots continued to surface with each coat of clear as though the clear flows away from the edge of the metal flake (or point of metal flake explaining the size of the spots
"head of a needle size".

I know this because when I sanded the 1st and 2nd clear coats I hit some of them and they looked like bright silver spots in the translucent Red Base "No Metalic in this coat, only in the Pure Gold. Those areas I re-applied tranclenct Red to cover for the next coat of clear.

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Phillip27 ]</p>
01-08-2003 03:51 PM
one off Don't know if i understand this quite right.First question, is your base gold a metalic or a flake? If it's a metalic the edges won,t come through the clear. Second question, did you put some of your color in the top coat clear? If you did and sand it you could get variations in the tone.
01-07-2003 01:25 PM
Phillip27
Wetsanding Clear and Metal Flake on Edge

Ok no Real mess here just very rusty and want to do this right.

I have a 1971 Chevy Nova. I painted it with PPG Radiance Super Custom Base Wine Berry Red Translucent Base over PPG Delton 2000 Pure Gold Base. The Bases had the standard DX57 added to Yield high bond in the bases, and avoid reaction within the two bases. Then I cleared, 3 times with 3 quarts Dupont 7800S Chroma Clear High Glamor each coat. I continued to blend Wineberry reduced @ 125% to areas which appeared to light or in need of blending. Both blends done after the first and second coat of clear. Then I applied the third coat of clear and allowed it to cure. So what are my problems? These items:

1) I wetsanded the clear at 400 grit between the first and second coat of clear.

2) Apparently Metal flakes in the pure gold stood up on edge, in many places throughout the finish. This caused a Fisheye like effect in the clear, however I was able to build the clear to the tune of 2.5 Gals. The spots of on edge metalic flake are properly colored. Will this be overly noticable after the car is wetsanded and Buffed? If so, is there anyway to get another clear coat to lay over and fill these locations a Clear sealer perhaps that won't ruin my base work.
3) I have been testing, the wetsanding process prior to buff, on the deck lid only. I'm using 2000, and 2500 respectivley. It seems no matter how clean I keep the Water, block, Paper I keep getting occational deep scratches. Let me Qualify, The kind if buffing by hand, with Dupont Finesse-it you could remove in million years. However you can get it out with Perfect-it III but not without massive effort ie. 3-4 attempts by hand.
4) I'm concerned that I might burn through the clear with a buffer (because I'm an amature with a buffer) I have the proper Pads 3M (Perfect It Foam compounding and Polishing pads) 6" with a 3M hook-it DA setup. I have attempted to use the Compounding pad with my DA at very low speed and Perfect-It III. I have had mixed results, including swirl scratches from the compund itself.
5) So now what? should I send it out to get done professionally or will the Metal flake be a issue which won't justify the expense of Buffing?


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