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It's just a 225 AC/DC Lincoln buzz box. I forgot to tell the distance being covered: it's about 125 feet, main panel board to garage panel board.onenew32 said:First off let me say: DAMN, HOW BIG A WELDER YOU GOT?
It doesn't.onenew32 said:Anyway, now that that is out of the way, let me tell you a few things about me. I am presently not a licensed electrician, but in the past I held both a journeyman’s and a Master electrician’s license in a very large metropolitan city. A career change found me letting these licenses lapse. My knowledge of the National Electrical Code (NEC) is a little out of date, but it is sound. Although some things I have done in my own and friends shop might not follow the exact letter of the NEC as now written, I have never done anything I worried about, or in my opinion would jeopardize anyone’s safety.
That being said, I have questions:
1. Where your garage service is fed from, the primary dwelling, I presume. Does the panel there have bottom or “flow through” lugs at the bottom of the buss to accept wire lugs? Most residential panels don’t, but it would be cool if it did.
Yes. 7 spaces still unused besides the 2 double pole 50A breakers feeding the garage and the welder.onenew32 said:2. Do you have a space for a 100 amp breaker in this box, possibly replacing the 40 amp, two pole you have now?
Yes. If I decide to replace the existing panel in the garage, I would install the new one just inside the garage at the corner nearest the house. This would reduce the feeder length from the main panel in the house to 105 feet.onenew32 said:3. Is the garage separated from the house, or attached? If it is detached, the NEC now says it must be treated as a separate structure for the matters of grounding. (a good thing)
Thanks. I have a dog-eared copy of "American Electricians' Handbook", McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-013931-8, 1981.onenew32 said:4. You need to get yourself a book. “Ugly’s Electrical References” Distributed by Burleson Distributing Co, 3501 Oak Forest Drive, Houston, Texas 77018. Your local electrical distributor might have one. Great electrical book for laymen.
So I could pull two #2 wires in each of the two existing conduits and elimate the need for both of the existing 8/3 w/gnd cables in there now? And not have to dig that trench again to replace the 2 small conduits with 1 big one? Example: one "hot" and neutral in one conduit, one "hot" and ground in the other conduit?onenew32 said:5. Now the important stuff: your 1” PVC conduit will hold two # 2 or 3 #3 THW or THHN (THHN recommended) wire. This will give you a rated 100 amp or 115 amp capabilities. (all NEC ratings are based on THW) using the #2 will require you setting a new ground rod at the shop location for Neutrals and grounds (do it)
I kept thinking that might be possible but wasn't sure. The handbook I have only includes the NEC up to 1981.onenew32 said:6. My final suggestion would be to install a new 100 amp panel with about 20 or 24 spaces, feed your welder and compressor from it, and still have 16 single spaces for everything else.
If I put in the 20 space load center I could use some of this #8 cable as an extension cord for the welder.onenew32 said:7. Keep in mind that the NEC allows for de-rating of conductor size and branch circuit breaker size for welders, based on duty cycle, but the nameplate amps should take priority over that. Unless you have a real Hog, #8 wire should run it. (55 amps)
I don't like them either but if enough advised that it was the best option at this point, I'd try some.onenew32 said:8. I don’t like “piggy back” or tandem breakers. (but I don’t like fat chicks, either, but some guys are alright with them. It’s a personal thing, I guess).
heh - All the wiring I've done has been copper. My mother's house was built around 1900 and had its wiring on porcelain insulators. It took me two years of spare time to re-wire it with 12/2 w/gnd NM. It took her at least that long to get used to not having to carry around an extension cord for everything.onenew32 said:9. If you even consider using anything other than copper wire, I will personally send my dog, Bubba to bite you.
My garage is a pole-barn construction that seems to grow faster than my wiring abilities can keep up with. I've been trying to maintain that thing about an outlet within 6 ft of wall space at any point along the wall. That's why I have only 1 space left in that garage panel.onenew32 said:10. Remember, electrical outlets are never as cheap as they are during construction of a new structure. Put in plenty.
Hmm. Turn 'em until they strip then back off 1/4 turn? Just kidding. I appreciate the warning.onenew32 said:11. Make certain all of your connections are tight. Loose connections build heat, which is not good.
Actually, I have both a brother and a brother-in-law who are electricians, but I *know* they are crackpots. I just like to get as much info and input as possible when I'm about to get in over my head.onenew32 said:12. If you have any concerns about anything I have written here, ask an electrician locally. Shop fires that burn down your wife’s house can be hard to explain to her. After all, I might be a crackpot, or just stayed at a Holliday Inn Express last night.
You sure have! Thanks, loads!onenew32 said:13. I hope I have been of some help. Gotta go now, my fingers are starting to cramp. (just the two I type with). :thumbup: :welcome:
I just rewired my barn and i put it on a seperate service with its own meter,so it had to be inspected before the electric company would turn on power.i had been told the same about the gfci and installed one close by the panel.i asked the inspector when he came and he said they weren't required anymore.so maybe it's a local code thing.dawg said:hmm nothing mentioned about GFCI breakers?
I thinkk its code to have those installed in a garage?
Sorry about that. Yes, it's a 200A service.Bee4Me said:Only question on using the 100A. in the house box is,
What size SERVICE you got now?
Hopefully a 200A cause IF you only have a 100-150A you got a problem.
Running some cat 5 is definetaly a good idea. Not only is it better sound quality for telephone it also gives you the option of running high speed internet out there. Having a solid line is definetaly a better signal than a wireless router and depending on the distance you could have an issue. wireless routers are also known to have dead spots in certain areas.grouch said:72cutsupreme:
Thanks. I'm debating with myself over whether to dig it up or not in order to run some cat 5e to the garage. IIUC, you can't run ethernet or tv cables in the same conduit as 120V or 240V. It's a toss-up whether to run a cable or just do wireless. If I do re-dig that trench, there will be some 3" conduit going in alongside those two 1". Something in favor of digging a completely new trench just for a new feeder is that it would reduce the distance by 25 feet.
It will be a 4 wire feed to the garage, whether I use the existing conduit or dig it up and put in a 3". I will be installing a ground rod at the garage as onenew32 advised back at the start of the thread. All neutrals in the garage sub-panel will be isolated from the grounds. Found a 20 space Square D 100A panel for less than $150 so I may be rewiring pretty soon.
Are you sure? I'm pretty well set in my ways and always use copper. What's this aluminum stuff? Isn't that just for covering the bbq grill and making airplanes?onenew32 said:Three # 3 THW wires (100 amps) or two # 2 wires (115 amps) will fit into a 1 “ PVC conduit. Look at the book you said you had, or go look at the NEC and it will tell you that. Set a ground rod at the shop, because the NEC says that’s the way it is supposed to be. Grounds and neutrals are kept separate to the point of them all becoming grounds at the panel, hence the term "grounded neutral" Two wires will do this, run the third if it makes you feel better about the neutral. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. Use copper. WHAT IS YOUR HOME WORTH ??????? PLEASE BEFORE YOU USE ALUM. WIRE, TALK TO A LOCAL ELECTRICIAN.
ALuminum or copper for maine feeders or sub feeders really comes down to personal preferance and $money$. Aluminum is half the price of copper and if treated correctly is no more dangerous.grouch said:Are you sure? I'm pretty well set in my ways and always use copper. What's this aluminum stuff? Isn't that just for covering the bbq grill and making airplanes?
Seriously, the only aluminum wiring around my house are the electric company's drops from the transformer to my main load center. I wired the rest of my house and garage and the smallest is 12/2 w/gnd COPPER.
Don't be talking about a "parting shot". You've confused me with this two wires talk. Are you saying treat the garage as a completely separate entity and just run two 'hots' to it, e.g. red and black? Let the ground rod(s) be tied to both equipment ground and neutral in the garage panel? Something doesn't sound right there. I thought I needed 4 wires from the house and to isolate the neutrals from grounds at the garage, plus have at least one ground rod at the garage.
The manual for the 7.5HP compressor motor says use #3 for the distance I'm running it, to get the voltage drop within NEC recommendations, so I like the idea of using #2 wire. I also like the idea of having wire with a higher ampacity than the breaker it's attached to.
I know this doesn't have anything to do with your garage but I just thought i'd point out that both things you pointed out above (14 guage wire and 7 devices on a circuite) are perfectly exceptable. 90% of the wire I use in a house is 14 guage and there is almost allways 7 devices on a 15 amp breaker. The only main places that 12 guage is used is for the washer, fridge, microwave, and dishwasher. This stuff is standard prctice and ahs nothing to do with taking pride in your work. It has to do with taking things to an uneeded extreem. I know of no electricin who uses 12 guage for his regular 15 amp plug circuits.grouch said:There is not a single circuit left in my house from the time that initial inspection took place. It was too sloppy to suit me, made use of a lot of 14 AWG wire, and had some circuits carrying as many as 7 duplex outlets. I'm not an electrician, but the one who initially wired this house prior to inspection wasn't much of one, either, in my opinion. The point is that electricians are people, too. Some want to take pride in every job they do, some are just punching the clock, and most fall somewhere in between.