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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend> all that work....all that money, WAISTED!!!!!
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-08-2002 05:36 PM
chevyelc81 The mufflers could be the heat problem. Im going to pop the cover off this weekend and double check everything one last time. If I don't see anything wrong, im just going to put it back together and drive it the way it is. Ill just keep some extra money in savings just in case it does break. If it does break, Im sending it right to the shop and Ill get everything done right by a pro. Im just plain sick of it. Thanx for all the replys. I really appreciate the help on this forum. If I knew you all, I would buy each of you a 6 pack of beer. <img src="graemlins/mwink.gif" border="0" alt="[mwink]" /> Thanx
08-08-2002 01:16 PM
axle bastard generaly a bearing will whine on power and coast, while the gear set can be just one or the other.
could have caused damage on the initial failure.
the mufflers are on either side of the pinion yoke on your car, aren't they? if so, that can contribute to some of the heat.
i have installed gear sets that were noisy, sure that some thing was wrong, i opened them back up, took a tooth pattern and back lash, had my boss double check. they left that way, and the customer is happy.
i would recomend a doubble check of tooth pattern and backlash, maybe a test drive at your local drive line shop, or a second opinion from someone you trust..
then run them untill you have time, money, or need to replace them.
i personaly would be concerned as to their structurial integrity after their first failure.
good luck.
maybe not wasted, could just be paying for education. we all have done that!

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: axle bastard ]

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: axle bastard ]</p>
08-08-2002 12:55 PM
willys36@aol.com I had sort of the same problem with a '56 Bel Air hardtop a while ago. Had a whine that was growing louder and couldn't pin it down. Was a well used stocker as opposed to your new one. Took the third member out and looked a the gears and they were perfect. Finally got frustrated and took the whole thing apart. Found the carrier bearings were badly pitted. Replaced them and things were fine. If your gears are true as you say I would suspect the bearings. Can generate a lot of heat in them if they are set up wrong - too tight or too loose, or damaged.
08-08-2002 08:00 AM
dmorris1200 I'm no rear end specialist but I do know the rears we put together at work do not whine when done. We generally consider that a problem. On the other hand when I was getting ready to buy the ring & pinion set for my car more than one person I work with said that they'd had problems with noisy richmond sets. I ended up getting a set of precision 3.70 gears from Randy's Ring & Pinion online. Not only do they not make a sound but the only break-in I did was to just get in and drive. Truly sorry about your loss though, money doesn't grow on trees to fix these things.
08-08-2002 07:03 AM
chevyelc81 I put everything together again with new grade 8 bolts. Im sure I have the pinion gear depth right and the clearances right, but it still whines. Its not too loud but when your foot is slightly on the gas, the gears humm. Plus the rear end gets really hot. The directions say that new gears will cause excesive heat especially on numerically higher gears, so they say to break in the gears by driving 10 miles, stop, and let the rear end cool for 30 mins, and repeat that 4 or 5 times. Hopefully that will solve the heat problem but what about the whining? Should I just leave it be or bring it to a shop? Im sick of taking this thing apart.
08-07-2002 01:05 PM
axle bastard yep, i was thinking 8.5! sorry
08-06-2002 10:55 PM
4 Jaw Chuck Rotten luck just the same, hope the next goes better. Sounds like you got your stuff figured out.
08-06-2002 09:58 PM
chevyelc81 I did use new bearings in the pinion, and I tightened the pinion bolt to where the pinion gear spun with a little bit of drag and with no play in the bearings. The installation kit came with a new collapseable sleeve which I did install. I don't think the gears bit eachother. I think I might know what happened. I was given the wrong torque specs. I torqued all the bolts to 35 foot lbs. I called the Summit tech line and according to Richmond Gears, I was told 45 to 50 foot lbs for the 3/8 bolt on the 8.2 rear ends. I think axle bastard is thinking of the 8.5 ten bolt and 12 bolt rear ends which both use 7/16 bolts. The 8.2 has 3/8 bolts, I would probably strip something or snap a bolt if I torqued them to 90 ft lbs. I think the bolts were just way too loose from the begining, thats why it fell apart. Thanks for the info though, It will be helpful if this ever happens again, hopfully it doesn't.

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: chevyelc81 ]</p>
08-06-2002 01:53 PM
axle bastard hey, i spend 8 hrs. a day getting paid to rebuild these things. a gm 10 bolt and 12 bolt are 90 ft lbs. ring to carrier. i doubble checked today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i haven't had one failure, ever. a leak maybe, no failures! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
08-06-2002 12:19 AM
4 Jaw Chuck What did you preload the pinion nut too? Did you use new bearings in the pinion? There is a spec that varies between 5-23 inch pounds of preload or drag on the pinion assy, I hope you used a new collapseable sleeve? Sounds to me like the pinion did not have enough preload and it "bit" the ring gear, this usually shears all the bolts on the ring gear or grenades the case.

Hate to say it but if this is what happened I would just get an entire new axle, the case spreads and the spider carrier is usually warped not to mention the pinion being bent. We won't discuss what happens to the bearings, you get the picture. I hope this is not what happened. You can tell by checking the preload on the pinion nut with the carrier out, if it is loose or has no preload you will know. The actual torque on the pinion nut varies but is around 100-300 ft pds depending on the axle, the preload torque is the amount of torque it takes to rotate the pinion once assembled in the case and the nut is tightened. I've seen this a few times before but usually it is caused by drag racing and the collapseable sleeve "collapses" and the preload is gone. When I set up an axle for abuse I custom machine a solid spacer to replace the collapseable spacer, solves the problem completely.

Hope I'm wrong.
08-05-2002 08:32 PM
chevyelc81 I would shoot myself if I forgot to put the gear oil back in. I put 2 quarts of 85W-140 gear oil in and a squeeze tube of limited slip oil. I definatly made sure I put oil in it. The torque wrench I used is a couple of years old, so that might have been the problem, and the torque specs really don't sound right to me. I think 35 ft lbs is a little under torqued. Ill call a rear end shop and see what they say for that size rear end. Once again, Thank you very much for the input.
08-05-2002 07:04 PM
axle bastard ring gear to carrier specs are 80 ft lbs if my memory is working properly. touque wrench. good thought. leaving the torque wrench "loaded" will surely throw it off
80 ft lbs for a gm 8 1/2.

[ August 05, 2002: Message edited by: axle bastard ]</p>
08-05-2002 06:03 PM
Jim Weeks Another idea for you is to check the accuracy of your torque wrench. When I was in trade school a guy had built an engine, unknowingly using a defective torque wrench. After driving the car for 15 minutes the engine fell apart just like your diferential did. After investigating the problem for days they checked his torque wrench against another one of known good quality and his was way off. Just a thought.
08-05-2002 05:38 PM
Hilbilly My two cents worth. Have used ring gear spacer before with out any problems. Did you make sure that the ring gear and pinion pattern was ok. The whinnig leads me to beleave that could have been your problem. COuld it have been that something locked and shered the bolts. On another note did you remember to put gear oil back in it, the right type. That comes under I've been there and done that burned up a rear by that one my no one shpuld know why . <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
08-05-2002 12:46 PM
chevyelc81 The bolts were long enough, they came with the ring gear spacer. They didn't have lock washers so I used the old ones. They might have bottomed out on the ring gear, because I did torque each bolt to 35 foot pounds as specified in the intallation kit for 3/8 bolts. Does that sound right? But thats the only thing I can think, is they bottomed out. I'll try insatalling everything again double checking everything and I'll let you guy's know what happens. Thanx for the reply's.
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