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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-14-2005 03:57 AM
adtkart Yes, that looks good. It is a definate improvement. The wheel area really looks good. That is an area that I really hate doing. I would rather have a large straight panel that is going to be painted black than a wheel flare area. The guys at work give me a hard time regualrly about them. I spend so much time on them, to get them perfect.
10-13-2005 08:55 PM
BondoKing Good work bro, I can tell from the first pics there is a large improvement.

Keep at it and you will get it all the way with determination and our help

Matthew
10-13-2005 08:43 PM
milo Thanks for reporting your success. What we have here in the Body-Exterior section of HotRodders is a gathering of not just experts but true Champions in the craft.

You'll get a different view and explanation for any situation. A gestalt method of teaching and learning that can't be beat anywhere at any price..

We may lock horns on different points but thats what makes it the best source for body and paint information in the world...nothing feels better than seeing others enjoy getting past the hurdles edging toward the perfect body and paint job that can be had.
10-13-2005 05:38 PM
cole5_0
Update

Used the tape trick worked pretty good here r some update pics.
10-09-2005 09:20 AM
MARTINSR I'm with Aaron, that is my goal every time I do metal work where there is a body line involved. I want that metal out where it is suppose to be so I have a guide line when I do the plastic work. Of course the less plastic is always better anyway right?

And I do as Milo is showing (I think this is what he is showing) that you sand one area flat, over or below the body line flat, then you put a tape or draw a line to sand the next area up to, making the body line.

When doing this I don't worry at all about the body line until I am actually doing it. The top section (I always do the upper part first, just habit) is blocked flat, ignoring the body line and lower area all together. It MUST be flat or you will be wasting your time on the line anyway. If I block that upper area flat and then run the tape line to make the body line and find that here is little filler needed to bring the upper area down to the line, I apply it BEFORE I go any further. I apply it, then block the upper again until that new filler is done and lay the tape again. If now, the line is on the blocked area I know I can sand up to it doing the lower area and the body line will be perfect.

Oh yeah, and REALLY watch it with the pen trick, if you leave ANY of that ink you are going to likely have some serious bleeding problems. I use ONLY pencil, that way if some stays, it is no big deal that it gets primed over.

Brian

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>

“Basics of Basics” Plastic filler
By Brian Martin

What ever tools you use the trick is to not add the last "skim coat' till you KNOW that it is all you need. Don't try to block out that first coat, just use it as a base for the LAST skim coat.

I was taught this procedure after doing bodywork for a number of years and it really works well:

Just apply a nice coat of filler (what ever brand, whatever style, we will put that aside right now). Cut that coat NOT to make it perfect, but to get the basic shape and filling you need as a base for the skim coat. You can cut it with 36 40 or 80 depending on how big the area you are working is. In other words, if you can cut it fast with only 80 then do it. But I would say that this would be limited to an application that is no larger than about 8 inches.

If you happen to have a few high spots, see if you can tap them down.
If you have a few low spots add a bit more filler to ONLY those spots.

Re-cut these last low spots you have just filled with the same grit you have been using (most likely 36).

If you now have a surface that ONE skim coat will fill, then apply it. If you don't work with it a bit more, but NEVER add a little here or there and think you will finish it without a skim coat.

If you have a surface that is very close with only a few VERY MINOR low spots like poor feathering onto the metal, poor transitions from one application of filler to another, or from the metal that is "poking" up here and there you can do the LAST skim coat.

This skim coat is very important, you want it to extend over the COMPLETE area, this is well past the damage you have been working. Maybe as much as 3 inches past the plastic that you have applied to "rough" it out.

This skim coat can be regular filler or a polyester glaze like "Icing" or "Polyester glazing putty", that is your choice, I use both depending on the size of the area being worked. Do not use anything that doesn’t mix with a hardener. NO “Spot putty” in a tube, only polyester putties or fillers. If it uses a hardener, it cures to a hard film. The “spot putties” stay soft and can become even softer when the solvent from the primer coats it.

You now run a block, long board, or hog evenly over this skim coat with a little bit coarser paper than you plan on finishing with to cut off the resin that has surfaced in the filler. I usually just use the 36 or 40 or whatever I have been using on the "rough" work. BUT take CAUTION not to cut much off, you want to JUST take the very top, don't really sand AT ALL.

Now finish sanding with your longboard or block or hog or whatever using the finer paper like 80 on a large area or 120 on that small 8" sized area. Block it out to perfection with a nice feather edge to the surrounding metal.

I can't stress enough, the trick is to know when just ONE LAST skim coat will do the job. And apply it COMPLETELY over the surface. If you only one little low spot in the middle, DON'T just do that spot, skim the ENTIRE thing. You HAVE to have one LAST skim coat over the ENTIRE thing every time. If you get in the habit of this you will do it over and over on every dent you repair and find that you can do just about any dent with just two applications.

As you sand the filler let the board or block you are using run over the surrounding metal. If you only work on the filler you will sand it too low. You need to keep it as high as the surrounding metal, so use the metal as sort of a straight edge that you run the block or board off of.

Don’t worry if you cut through this skim coat here and there. In fact, you WILL most likely cut through. The point of that "LAST SKIM COAT" is that after you add it, you don't add ANY MORE filler. That "LAST SKIM COAT" is just that, the LAST filler you add. If you hit a little filler below, or metal, that is normal and fine. The only thing you are looking for at that point is if the panel is FLAT. The filler skim coat is serving no other purpose than to finish you filler work, it is not a "sealer" or anything like that.

You can add fiberglass resin (“A” coat if you have a choice.) Adding resin was exactly how I learned from the great Emery Robinson (my personal hero in the auto body world). But remember there were no products like polyester putties back then. When you add resin, that resin comes to the top of the film of filler. It is then something you have to deal with. The whole purpose of the SKIM COAT is to put a layer of filler over the top that is easy to block out with as little effort as possible. You want to be able to concentrate on making the panel FLAT, not fighting with gummy resin, sand scratches and the like.

So the polyester putty, though expensive, is what I use.

How is this for an idea: a co-worker of mine showed me this very obvious tip.

Add pour-able polyester putty to the regular filler! What an idea! LOL A little pour-able squirted into the "bondo" really thins it out nicely.

The "LAST SKIM COAT" should be left to cure a good long time. Where you may jump on filler and sand it as soon as it is hard, the skim coat should be GOOD AND CURED for an hour or more. If you can of course, in the production shop you may not be able to wait that long. The benefits of the procedure will not be diminished.

A little added note, I have found that I don’t use 36 or 40 grit at all anymore. I went to work at a shop that didn’t use the coarser grits so I had to learn not to also. I have found that using just the 80 and then finishing the Skim coat in 120 or 180 works great, even on large panels.

At this shop it was the first time that I wasn’t doing my own primer work. This meant that I couldn’t “cheat” with a lot of primer and blocking the body work “one more time”. I found that I had to get the work PERFECT, then give it to the painter. I did this in an interesting way, I look at the last skim coat as even a more “final” step. I now look it as “primer”. You see I have used polyester primer, which is like spraying “bondo”. They are both polyester resin based and act and sand very much the same. So, I figured why not just “spread out my primer” as the skim coat! It has worked GREAT, the painter jokingly says, “do you think I’ll need to prime this or just paint it?” I tell him, “Just clear it, it’s a shame to hide that work under primer”.

This method has worked great for me, it’s more of a state of mind than a procedure.

And don’t be afraid to buy the best sand paper and use a lot of it, the cost of the paper will be nothing next to the time and muscles saved. Find the paint store in town that services the PROS the Body shops in town, that is were you will get the right stuff and the right info.
10-09-2005 04:37 AM
adtkart Hey Milo..... Great tip. I never thought of that. I usually just do it by eye, and them are a real pain for me. Thanks for that pointer, I'll use that at the next opportunity, but I thought he was referring to the upper body line.
I personally like to work as much of the original body line out with the rest of the metal by, if possible, going inside with a straight object and pushing or knocking it out. You can also pull it out with the use of a stud gun. They are available from Harbor Freight for about $100. That not only gives you a reference to work with, it requires less filler, keeping in mind that body lines are targets for door dings and such. Filler doesn't hold up well in those situations. It is very likely that you will need some filler after that, but the amount is reduced. Other than that, the advise given above will help you get it done.

Aaron
10-07-2005 11:00 PM
BondoKing [QUOTE=milo]Heres a way to scribe the line after leveling that first
small field of filler closest to the wheel opening. A pen or pencil can be lodged in a 7mm box end wrench then slide it along the opening guideing with a finger establishing a start point.

Nice tip for the fender well bro

Matthew
10-07-2005 09:56 PM
milo Heres a way to scribe the line after leveling that first
small field of filler closest to the wheel opening. A pen or pencil can be lodged in a 7mm box end wrench then slide it along the opening guideing with a finger establishing a start point.

10-07-2005 09:16 PM
kenseth17 I do pretty much the same as bondo master does. Run your tape as bondo suggested and spread one half at a time. Also after your bodyfiller or filler primer is on, you can run your tape to the edge of the body line, and spray guide coat while the tape is still on, Then pull off and use the line of the guide coat to help you sand. Sand with a long board length wise up to the body line, then do the other half up to the line left by the guide coat. Then with following coats of primer you can see how straight its looking. You can prime just the bodyline until it looks nice and straight, then prime the rest of the panel once it is looks good.
10-07-2005 08:57 PM
cole5_0 Hey thanks a mill bondoking that should do it i will keep u posted with pics i thank they somtimes speak better then words.
10-07-2005 08:52 PM
BondoKing You will also notice as the quarter progressed so did the filler... It had waves all the way down it, and a dent on top I somehow missed when I first started working the lower section.... That is when the real fun begins... Makes my bad shoulder hurt just thinking about it... It is all the images of it I have, something happened to my disk I put them on and now many things I had on it are gone forever

Matthew
10-07-2005 08:48 PM
BondoKing This should give you some idea of what I am talking about

Matthew
10-07-2005 08:39 PM
BondoKing ok.... I will try and explain this..

1. stretch a piece of tape from one end to the other with the top edge of the tape as your body line.
2. Next apply filler across the top and slightly over the tape...
3. now work that filler down making sure you are using the correct angle... you will have to tilt your board here... it wont be straight up and down.... Dont eat up the tape, try and just work the top filler
4. Now tape the top with the bottom edge of the tape on the new edge you just created.
5. Apply filler to the bottom now and again slightly on the tape edge... work that filler accordingly...


The key to this whole process is getting either the top or bottom right and then working out the other one... I will try find some pics of a quarter I did earlier this year

Matthew
10-07-2005 08:25 PM
cole5_0
body line

Hi All,
I have a question about how to get the bodyline back on the rear quarter panel of my 89' mustang lx notch back it was hit in the rear d/s quarter panel
between the finder lip bending and creasing it and the side trunk lid rail about a 18 inch square area i sanded to bare metal pulled and hammered and dollied back in to shape got it very close to original shape then filled it but could not get the bodyline running down the side of the car.

HERE ARE SOME PICS!

Thanks 4 any help!

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