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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-28-2005 01:51 PM
Henry Moran
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
Let's stay on track here.

I really want to know what a "lower quality" clear is gonna
show differently down the road.
I'm not talking about a quality paint job but the symptoms
of the clear if it's lower quality.
----------------------------------------------
One of the things I have seen was that in a short period
a cheap clear due to U.V. turn yellowish.

Henry Moran.
10-28-2005 07:37 AM
OneMoreTime
What I have seen

As a practical matter the so=called "value line" paints do not have as much "stuff" to them and do not cover as well or flow out as well and in the end do not hold up as well..The premium paints cover well and work well for the painter..and do hold up better IMO saving a lot of time and trouble..By not putting "stuff' in the paint or skimping in the paint mix the paint maker can save a few bucks which is then passed to the customer..so there is a difference in paint quality..

In the cost of a paint job the paint itself is a small part of the expense the major piece is the labor involved in getting a good job..Saving a couple of bucks on paint is more than wasted in additional labor and time making cheap paint "work well"

One of the things I can get "positively anal" about is using the proper hardeners reducers and activators that go with the particular paint line that is being used..Even if you are using paint from one of the majors it does not necessaruly follow that the activtors and hardeners for say the Nason line would be the same for the premium line even tho they came from the same company..

One of the reasons a collision shop will settle on using a particular line of paint is so the painters do not play chemist either on purpose or by accident and create a mess that results in a bunch of callbacks..Say by using a paint from one company with some sort of additive or reducer from another..

My thoughts on getting a quality job..

OMT
10-28-2005 06:39 AM
jcclark
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/DC
When you say "lower quality" do you mean lower price?
No, I don't.

I think the last several posts sums it up.
I kinda expected those types of answers.
Thanks to each and every one of you for answering.

I'd sure like to hear from some of the chemists out there about
what ingredients in their low cost and premium brands are different.
Is there pricing difference supported by higher ingredients costs?
Probably not, and if not, is their low cost brand just as good?
That's what I really want to know, they pretty much keep us
in the dark when it comes to what we're buying.
I buy DuPont, and they make Nasson, a good product.
Will I see any durability differences between the two?
10-28-2005 03:16 AM
adtkart When it comes to clears, there are several things that I look for.

1. I want it as clear as possible. If I paint something red for example, I don't want to put clear on it and have orange. I want it to look RED.
2. I want it to hold up. It will need some flexability, to avoid peeling from the metal going through the temp ranges, and also don't want it to chip easily when bumped.
3. I don't want it blowing off in the wind. It has to stick!
4. I want shrinkage to be at a minimum.

I recently did a test spray of 2 different clears for comparason of the appearance. This was 2 weeks or so ago. Of course, I left a small amount in the mixing cups when done. Last night, I went out to the garage and came across the cups with the clear in the bottoms. One of the cups had a clear that was actually "Clear", as in "little or no distortion". The other cup had clear that looked, well let's say, "milky" is a good term. Both had relatively little shrinkage, but the appearance was what got me. I also had used the clearer one last weekend, and left about 1/2" in a small cup. It was still clear as could be. It wasn't as flexable, but was still clear.

We spray clear to protect and provide a good gloss, not to change the color.

Aaron
10-27-2005 09:19 PM
baddbob [QUOTE=crashtech]Low quality clear can be overly sensitive to chemicals, solvents, bird droppings, and environmental fallout. It can lose gloss, get chalky, or even delaminate (peel off).
QUOTE]

I agree, Poor quality paints just plain don't have the long term looks and durability of the good quality paints, they just breakdown and fail at a faster rate. If a paint doesn't provide the look and or durability I would expect then that would IMO be considered a poor quality product plain and simple. Price really has nothing to do with the quality of materials IMO. The research and development and brand label are most likely the factors that makes some products more expensive than others. Laquer primer surfacer compared to urethane primer surfacer is a good example of two products designed for the same use that give major differences in performance, basic example. Some of the major things a person will notice when spraying good quality topcoats is there is always very little if any gloss dieback, clarity is good with no haziness, excellent DOI, and very good scratch resistance....lower performance paints just don't provide the same results.
10-27-2005 08:57 PM
AC/DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
Let's stay on track here.

I really want to know what a "lower quality" clear is gonna
show differently down the road.
I'm not talking about a quality paint job but the symptoms
of the clear if it's lower quality.

If that is what you really want to know then you are going to find many opinions and little facts. If I have seen a product that hasn't lasted for crap,three other people have seen it do wonders and last forever.
When you say "lower quality" do you mean lower price?
10-27-2005 08:38 PM
mrcleanr6 [QUOTE=baddbob]The quality of the product IMO is directly related to how the finished product looks and holds up. If it sprays and buffs well that is also a great plus, but many of the junk products spray and buff easily as well. When the paint looks a mile deep and also offers great durability- then you've got a high quality product IMO.


***********************************

couldn't agree more!!!

i think quality really has nothing to do with price (to a point). obviously a $30 gallon of clear is going to contain crap grade materials. just think about the overhead of a company like ppg or dupont. the price and sales has to cover that. thats what you are paying for. now look at spi. not really sure how big barry's company is but i bet it doesn't have operating costs like dupont. same with matrix. not a giant company so they can give you a quality product at a fair price.
10-27-2005 05:39 PM
crashtech
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
Let's stay on track here.

I really want to know what a "lower quality" clear is gonna
show differently down the road.
I'm not talking about a quality paint job but the symptoms
of the clear if it's lower quality.
Low quality clear can be overly sensitive to chemicals, solvents, bird droppings, and environmental fallout. It can lose gloss, get chalky, or even delaminate (peel off).

Sometimes the last thing can happen just from the clear being too thin, even if it's good clear you must apply enough clear for UV protection of the basecoat or the base will rot and basically shed the clear.
10-27-2005 12:08 PM
BondoKing Okay,I mixed some AF clear to do the repair I have already spoke of, 12 hours later it fell out of the mixing cup and when I tried to see if it would bend it broke into, and kept breaking into... Now mind you, I did not get it to flex at all.... I have used PPG that would bend and flex and stay held to the sides of a mixing pail for days on end....

That tells me that down the road this clear may not hold up as well, probably will chip easier etc.... Very hard and brittle is not something we want.....I could be wrong and for my pocket I hope so, otherwise in a few years I may be fixing that car again for free.
10-27-2005 08:50 AM
jcclark Let's stay on track here.

I really want to know what a "lower quality" clear is gonna
show differently down the road.
I'm not talking about a quality paint job but the symptoms
of the clear if it's lower quality.
10-27-2005 07:58 AM
crashtech
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/DC
Quality is in the heart.
I like that. It doesn't matter what product anyone uses, if they don't care, or are lazy, the result will be good only by accident. A place where I once worked had a sign on the wall:

"Perfection is our goal, excellence will be tolerated."

Now at first I dismissed it as so much marketing bulls**t, but the little motto has stuck with me, because once I admitted it, it's exactly how I approach my work. Knowing only the Almighty is perfect will not not stop me from approaching as close to perfection as possible in my own small way.

THAT is quality.

As to clear, it seems that most of us operate on trust, and the reputation of the company from which we buy our stuff. Sometimes that trust gets violated, but most companies know they have to put out products that do what they say they're going to do if they want to be in business for the long term.
10-26-2005 11:17 PM
BondoKing Here is my idea of quality... U will see in the first pic the clear has a bunch of over spray on the top of it... That is what happens when it sets around on my work bench for almost 2 weeks while I paint other things

Make note of the date on the bottom of the mixing pail and the fact it is reduced 20 percent... Also I had to knock the clear loose from the cup to show its flexibility ... It was 9 days and counting before I removed it... That shows how little it shrinks


Matthew..
10-26-2005 11:10 PM
baddbob The quality of the product IMO is directly related to how the finished product looks and holds up. If it sprays and buffs well that is also a great plus, but many of the junk products spray and buff easily as well. When the paint looks a mile deep and also offers great durability- then you've got a high quality product IMO.

Step back 30 years and look at Imron, Centari, Dulux
10-26-2005 08:51 PM
AC/DC Quality is not so much what you use but how you do it. Just because you use a high dollar clear or whatever doesn't mean you just put down a quality clear job. Quality is in the heart.
As far as the collision industry, most shop who are certified with a particular brand has to stay within certain guidelines of products to maintain their warrenty. Absolutely NO crossbreeding of brands!! Most brands have a number of clears to choose from so it's not like we're locked into one clear anyway.
10-26-2005 07:36 PM
BarryK "Bunch of "unknown's" start a show,GREAT program,Making ton's of MONEY,after a few seasons,it goes to the crapper. Greed,Pure and simple."

***********************************************
Only thing you forgot is a year later most of them are now in drug rehab or dry-out centers and the rest of them are getting divorced and remarried for the third time this year.

So much for my ranting and back to what you said, the above statement should be posted on every company owners door for daily reading.
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