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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-15-2005 08:49 PM
x711 Hi Mike, your right about practicing on some junk panels first,
I intend to do that with the devilbiss when it arrives.

In my earlier posts I mentioned I was using the Xtreme 5425
epoxy based primer which gave me good results. Below are
2 pictures of the primer shot on the front bumper cover of
the car. To the touch the primer feels pretty smooth. One
to two passes with 400 grit would make it feel baby soft smooth.

Thanks X
11-14-2005 09:10 PM
Bee4Me COOL it IS.
ADDICTIVE is what it's ABOUT.

A 2.0 for base? You got it GOING on 46. LOL...
I bet THAT took some "adjusting"
Just show's that you can paint with almost ANYTHING.
jc use's a 1.6 with base METALLIC'S. I tried it but that one isn't in my playbook.
It's really a matter of being used to the gun reguardless of WHAT it is.
I painted for years with that "purple" harbor freight HVLP gun and I could lay clear like glass with it,No, I couldn't do it right off but after learning the gun it became routine.

x711,Get some junk panels and practice on them with the DeVill and get a feel for it and the paint. It's time WELL spent BEFORE hitting that slick primer.
Everyone is alway's SO anxious to paint the car but trust me on this one. You'll be MORE comfortable and CONFIDENT and have a MUCH better job.

BEST of luck to ya. Mike.
11-14-2005 08:20 PM
x711 Hey 46chevyfleetline glad to hear that worked out for you. Im like living for
the weekend like crazy these days, cause 2 days off 2 days to play with
the car. This stuff becomes addictive after awhile.

I really like the folks on this board most take the time to post help
which is a real good thing for a newbie. The primary driving force for me
was that I was not going to blow $2000.00 at a body shop for my car to
get painted. I went to some local ones around here and while some seemed
to be ok in their suggestions for the paint job I felt that If I did the work myself more attention to detail would be had. The big plus is that when im
finished I have the equipment at hand and the knowledge learned to do
it again or help others do their paint job.

Cool eh

Thanks X
11-14-2005 07:33 PM
46chevyfleetline Hey 711! Trial and Error is definitely the rule. last week I painted my first bc cc and it turned out great except for a very few dust particles. The only thing is that I used the wrong tip and I don't know how I did it but I did. Instead of the 1.4, I used a 2.0. i had to play with the gun but I got it down pretty good with my new hvlp. Didn't realize what I did till I was Putin the gun and extra tips in a case I found to store the new gun in. Got me confused. Now I've got to get some more parts ready to paint with the proper tip before this screw -up drives me friggin' nuts. But then I guess its not a screw up cause it turned out okie dokie. And believe me I'm pretty anal to when it comes to the end product. Oh well just thought I'd tell everyone that I'm losin' it. cheers!!!
11-14-2005 06:26 PM
x711 Trial & Error man,Trial & Error.
Rocket science at it's BEST!!

Aint that the truth Bee4me, but this stuff is fun none the less !

In my earlier post about doing the shooting test between guns I neglected
to say that I had reduced the paint by 10% but it still sprayed imho not
that great.

I went ahead and ordered the devilbiss plus GFG-670 gun today as I had
it on my mind to have atleast one higher end gun to shoot with, If this gun
saves me some time and produces good results It will be money well spent.

The thing is I have the car all ready to shoot, its primed with epoxy and
sanded to a baby smooth finish so it would be a shame to blow all the
effort I have put in so far for the sake of $300.00 so its worth a shot !.

Using the finex 1.0 mm gun, the actual peel was not that bad. I was able
to wet sand it out very easily, My intent is to wet sand the entire car once finished with the painting but so this part goes easy I wanna try lay the paint
as flat as is possible with my setup.

I am kind of anal about trying to get things right, I will beat this to death
until its on the money.

Hey thanks for your reply and help, I shall follow up this thread before
the week is out with my results. I got to also get some digital photos so
all can see,

Best regards X
11-14-2005 06:07 PM
x711 Ha Ha lol 56 Project,

Never tried the Peanut Jar trick.

Thanks X
11-14-2005 03:55 PM
56 Project It has been a few years since I mixed and sprayed. I used to used a large glass peanut butter jar. Put in 2 cups of water (paint) and mark the level with masking tape,add 1 cup of water (reducer) and mark the level again,then add the portion of water (hardner) and mark again. It has been a few years since I sprayed (I'm screwed now 'cuz all the peanut butter jars are plastic). I use to use Centauri by Dupont and I had found a gloss hardner called the Wet Look for the last few I did.
11-14-2005 11:12 AM
Bee4Me You answered your own question but don't realize it.

You stated earlier about having to reduce the primer cause it would not lay out right due to too small of a tip in the gun.........


SAME problem with the paint.

Single stage is thick compaired to a regular base paint so you either need a larger tip or MORE air with the 1.4 OR, Reduce the paint about 10% or so to get it to flow out better. I'd try more air as HVLP's are notorious for being "on the verge" of spraying properly,Compliant thing and all you know, So bumping the air up 10 psi will help. This set with the trigger FULLY pulled of course.
I have a Finex touch up which recomends 28# at the gun and I usually run 30# AND reduce the SS the 10% I spoke of. IF I'm spraying clear,I'll go to 35 with a medium solids (Nason Select 497) with NO reduction as I WANT the build.
IF you have a 1.6 for either full sized gun's,try that as well for the SS.

Trial & Error man,Trial & Error.
Rocket science at it's BEST!!

I prefer the S.W.A.G. method myself.




Scientific Wild *** Guess.
11-13-2005 03:35 PM
x711
HVLP Spray guns and paint viscosity:

Hey bee4me, I aint getting bent on you, I appreciate you
and others taking your time to help a newbe painter out.

Its really very interesting stuff, You make some very good points.

I did some more testing with the guns I have last night, but I am not getting
the results I taught I should. I used a Sharpe Finex 1.4mm gun and also
a Sharpe finex 1.0mm gun to lay some single stage valspar Omega 2k paint.

Anyway I mixed the paint with the activator per the Tech sheet from valspar
and ran some tests with both the 1.0, 1.4mm gun.


Keeping about 8" from the object I was spraying I noticed the following.

The 1.0mm gun did pretty good but when the paint flashed off and dried
it had peel in it. I did 3 passes, letting the paint flash between passes.

The 1.4mm gun put more paint down, but after flashing off and drying
the object had more peel. Prior to shooting I did a spray test and adjusted both guns as best I could.

In both cases I noticed the following. The droplet size seemed to me to
be a little large and non uniform even after upping the air pressure a couple of pounds in the hope of atomizing the paint better. Its almost like the guns
were not able to break down the SS paint properly.

After upping the pressure The droplet size did decrease but less material
was getting delivered so I increased the flow of fluid to compensate. After
increasing the flow, I had a bigger spray pattern but still the same deal. iT
looked like there was a atomization problem to me. So I am thinking that
the guns are not really suitable for the type of paint I have.

I did some research last night and will put a call into devilbiss tomorrow
as I am interested in there new Plus GFG-670 gun as perhaps a better
avenue to go in laying this SS paint.

I would welcome any comments that anyone has on the GFG-670 or on
what they feel might be causing my atomization problem with the sharpe
guns. The devilbiss costs alot more than the sharpe so its a diferent class
of gun.

Thanks for your help.

X
11-13-2005 03:03 PM
Bee4Me SEE, You gotta PAINT to learn.

All part of the curve x711.
I'm playing Devil's advocate here with you to prove some important points to new painter's so don't get bent on me,You've played along and I appreciate you indulging me.

HVLP is confusing enough in it's own right.
MOST tech sheet's state 8-10 psi at the cap spraying pressure.
Show me a newbie painter that understands THAT and I'll buy you a gal of HOK base.
I use an Iwata HVLP that recommends 16-18 psi at the gun to give the recommended 8-10 at the cap. Also,they state to spray 4-5" off the PANEL.
Talk about "different". That's SO far from the norm for painting I could not believe it. IT WORK'S cause I tried it "their" way after not having much luck "my" way.Sure I can fool around with the gun and get it to spray my way but it defeats the whole design of the gun.

Same applies to paint product's.You can fool around and make them work "your" way or LEARN the PROPER way to use them.

Point being, If you follow the Manuf. recommendations,your almost home.

Sometime's.

This is the BIG reason WHY this web board is one of the BEST.
REAL people who PAINT and KNOW what works,what doesn't,what to use.
11-12-2005 11:49 PM
chadsbodyshop49119 I think there is way too much effort to get the same results, mix it like it says and if it is to thick for you to spray run outta the booth and ad a little reducer.. and go back to spraying...like they say... no exact science here.
11-12-2005 10:13 PM
MARTINSR LOL, you are very right, but if you simply mix it according to the mix ratio it is going to be within that with out needing to measure it.

Brian
11-12-2005 03:40 PM
Timer DuPont, BASF, Akzo Nobel, S&W(upper end clears and such), and Some Other Smaller Paint Companies such as Rubber Seal normally have a viscosity listing in their TECH SHEETS.
Info about the Viscosity Cups.
http://p2forum.proboards56.com/index...9876512&page=1

ULTRA 7000 Super Glamour Clearcoat CC639
" Viscosity (sprayable) #2 Zahn 16-18 sec"
http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/me...glish/5510.pdf
11-12-2005 12:18 PM
x711
HVLP Spray guns and paint viscosity:

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I agree that for the most part the tech
sheet will get you in the window with respect to mixing ratios so this is a good starting point, then comes the tweek factor.

Where I am coming from is this and I guess if I had painted as long as some
of you I would have more experience, hence I try to dig as deep as I can and then go paint.

One of my tech sheets for primer has a mix ratio for a hvlp gun that has a range of 1.6mm to 2.0 mm. Talking with the manufacturer they told me that
I would have difficult spraying the material at a ratio of 4:1:0 with a 1.8mm
gun and it would be best to reduce the primer, which was fine.

For regular build primer they show on the tech sheet that a ratio of 4:1:1
is ok, but in my setup I found that a 4:1:1.5 ratio was better. The primer
went on very smooth.

So where I am coming from is this, since the liquid was slightly more reduced
that meant it had a thinner viscosity and the gun was able to atomize the fluid better.

So hence my post about the viscosity of the paint. I think this is something
that any newbe painter should be aware of right out the gate.
"It can reduce hair pulling"

Thanks for your insight. X
11-12-2005 10:09 AM
Bee4Me
Quote:
but surely
there is a more scientific approach to this.
LOL...

x711 I'm really not trying to make light of you or what your asking but,
Ain't nothing scientific about sprayin' paint.
Even with EVERYTHING set up and mixed and adjusted correctly you have a BIG uncontrolled variable.
YOU.
That, and Karma or the Ide's or whatever form of "luck" you believe.
Some day's you can do NO wrong,Some day's are best just not even opening a can of paint.
Painting IS trial & error as YOU have to APPLY the product. The MORE you apply,the BETTER you get (supposed to work that way,Right?)
Paint costs money and I understand but nobody EVER said painting was CHEAP.
If your trying to save some $$$ by disecting everything to the Nth degree,good luck my friend cause it just does NOT work that way.Ther are no "sure fire recipe's".Conditions change and so should you.Adaptation is the ART of painting.We HAVE to do things that are NOT in the rule book.
You have to paint to learn.PERIOD.
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