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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-05-2005 09:46 AM
shine randy's giving you the straight poop on oil canning. i tig weld my patches and try to keep the heat as low as possible . i work on mostly older cars so i have a little more metal to work with. but i still have to work it back out.
12-05-2005 06:00 AM
39 chev
shaving handles

Quote:
Originally Posted by starquest
Well I took a closer look at my 'screwup' last night. Turns out the whole area where the door handle was is now sunk 1/8" into the door! No matter what I do, I can't bang it out either! I really screwed up this one. I refuse to fill an 1/8" area with bondo on the viewable body of this car, not after all the hard work I put into it already. I think I am going to scrap the door. I hate to do it because this is a completely rust free door. However, the car in which this door came from was in an accident once before and it put a slight twist to the full door frame. So it also doesn't line up perfectly on my car, it is close but not perfect.

I have another rust free door stored at a friends house. I think I am going to start over on it, now that I learned something. Only bad thing is that I won't be able to pick up the new door until Thanksgiving.


Any thought to just leaving the shaved panels in tack welds rather than fully welding it up? With my welding ability, there is no way around a skim coat of bondo anyway, I just don't want to risk warping another door this bad again.


kev
I I am an amateur at this body work stuff, but I have shaved side markers on 2 of my 71 chevy trucks,and doors on both trucks and on 2 of my S1o trucks. I cut the filler pieces close to the correct size and welded them in small tacks, working gradually across the patch[one side then the other. AS far as having a problem with filling a 1/8 deep area with bondo My God man thats what they make the stuff for.
12-05-2005 05:26 AM
S10Fan MARTINSR............

"I mean cool enough to put your tongue on it and feel no heat."

My wife already thinks I loves cars more than her! Just what i need, wife walking in the garage and seeing me testing metal temps. LOL!
12-04-2005 11:24 PM
chadsbodyshop49119 I've used the fusor adhesive on shaving handle's before,, and have not had a problem yet,, I always make sure the height of the patch is the same height as the surrounding metal, and make sure the edges of the patch panel are right at the edge of the door, so that way there's very very little gap, and then grind the top edge of the patch so it tapers inward, and then fusor it in.. I've not had a problem doing it this way yet,, I hope it stays that way..as it's very hard to weld some of the newer sheetmetal without warpage.. on classics I still weld...
10-15-2004 12:51 PM
starquest I guess I overreacted. I ended up cutting out the patch piece and was able to pull the depression back out of the door. I still have a very slight ripple that is less than 1/16" deep due to my inexperience with metalworking. Anyhow, I made a new patch piece and started to weld it in. This time I used the procedure described in this thread - one tack, then blow with air, another tack, blow with air, etc. So far I have a tack every 1/4" in and have had no warpage problems. I will be finishing it up this weekend by the same method as earlier - all tack welds until the seem is gone. I still need some bondo to cure the slight ripple, but I feel much better now that the depression is in a much more concentrated area and is less than a 1/16" rather than what I had before.

Thanks for your help,

kev
10-13-2004 07:03 AM
starquest Well I took a closer look at my 'screwup' last night. Turns out the whole area where the door handle was is now sunk 1/8" into the door! No matter what I do, I can't bang it out either! I really screwed up this one. I refuse to fill an 1/8" area with bondo on the viewable body of this car, not after all the hard work I put into it already. I think I am going to scrap the door. I hate to do it because this is a completely rust free door. However, the car in which this door came from was in an accident once before and it put a slight twist to the full door frame. So it also doesn't line up perfectly on my car, it is close but not perfect.

I have another rust free door stored at a friends house. I think I am going to start over on it, now that I learned something. Only bad thing is that I won't be able to pick up the new door until Thanksgiving.


Any thought to just leaving the shaved panels in tack welds rather than fully welding it up? With my welding ability, there is no way around a skim coat of bondo anyway, I just don't want to risk warping another door this bad again.


kev
10-12-2004 07:48 PM
Randy Ferguson Hi Guys,
The new, thinner, high strength steels are definitely harder to work with than the old stuff, but excellent results are still attainable.

As for your bike tank, you always want to place your welds in an area that you can get to on the backside. When custom building a new tank, you will place the welds where you can get to the backside of them with a post dolly or planishing hammer. Again, you have to be resourceful and make your own tooling at times, but don't let that stop you. Bike tanks are normally built out of heavier metal than automotive body panels, and coupled with the high crown shape of the tank, distortion can be held to a minimun if care is taken. You normally leave the bottom of the tank to weld in last, allowing access to the welds from the underside of the tank.

Randy
10-12-2004 04:02 PM
starquest Thanks for the advice randy. I will give it a shot. I'm always willing to learn something new.



The car I am working on is an 87 mitsubishi starion, so it is the same steel as that eclipse.

kev
10-12-2004 04:00 PM
mrcleanr6 the cars i had problems with are a 97 eclipse and a 95 civic.

randy: does the problem get worse or better the thinner the sheetmetal gets and what would your plan of attack be if you were making or modifing something like a motorcycle tank where getting to the backside is impossible. with all the custom bikes these days i cant imagine that all these fabricators are making these real nice tanks just to weld them up and have them warp and deform. i am not a welder but i am more or less in the motorcycle business and i am just curious especially since i will be making some mods to my own bike this winter. any tips would be appreciated.
10-12-2004 12:16 PM
Randy Ferguson Kev,
Introducing heat to the panel will only make matters worse. The heat generated by the welding process, caused the metal to shrink within the blued area (Heat Affected Zone or, 'HAZ') In order to reverse the effects of the welding process, you must return the metal to it's relaxed state by stretching the metal along this HAZ. Never work the metal outside this area when dealing with a weld seam, or you will have a huge problem to contend with. If you have an obstruction, rather than using a dolly, you have to be resourceful and use a slapper or other thin, hardened piece of metal to resist the blows from the hammer or slapper you are using on the face side. I prefer to always use a slapper, as the contact area is larger, yielding much smoother and controllable results.

Randy Ferguson
Ferguson Coachbuilding
www.metalmeet.com
10-12-2004 08:48 AM
cornfieldcars Those of you experiencing warpage....what kind of cars are working on? My only experience is on older cars (1950 and older) and I've never had a problem with this.
10-12-2004 07:00 AM
starquest Crap!

I wish I would have read this thread two days ago! I made the perfect patch panel to weld in to shave my drivers door. I was so carefull in tacking it in and letting it cool. But I ended up having the same problem as the originator of this post, as soon as I welded it up it warped!

There is a reinforcement plate right around the warped area. It is very difficult to get behind it with a dolly. I was able to get some of the dent out but not all. HELP! How can I get this thing out? Can I put heat on it? How much heat, where do I concentrate the heat at? I have no experience in shrinking metal, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
kev
10-11-2004 01:20 AM
Ron M As I have been stating, I do not want these holes permanenetly filled , period!
10-11-2004 12:28 AM
MARTINSR
Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Ferguson
and you are better off cooling quicker rather than letting the heat migrate further into the panel than need be. Randy Ferguson
Ferguson Coachbuilding
www.metalmeet.com
I have to admit Randy, that does make total sense.
10-11-2004 12:13 AM
Randy Ferguson I thought you guys were paying attention!!!!
The welding process caused metal to shrink. PERIOD!!!!
cooling with air, water, or waiting all friggin day isn;t going to have much effect on the outcome. I prefer to cool the weld seam, if need be, with compressed air. It doesn't give me any problems, and you are better off cooling quicker rather than letting the heat migrate further into the panel than need be. If you will always make butt welds and work the weld seam, only along the heat affected zone, your problems will be eliminated. There's absolutely no reason to use adhesives. That's a cheap, production body shop, get in/get out method. Do it right the first time and forget it!!

Randy Ferguson
Ferguson Coachbuilding
www.metalmeet.com
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