|12-25-2005 02:07 PM|
If I didn't get on the Net and give PPG the Rah Rah song then wouldn't get free T-Shirts, Free Hats, Free Paint Guns, New Paint Boothes, and such.
FREEBIES from the BIG Paint Companies?
Go Read All About it = Woo Hoo!
You either want someone to tell you a BED TIME STORY or you want to have GROUNDED WRITTEN STATEMENTS WITH ACTUAL LINKS THAT YOU CAN REFERENCE. I am not into telling BED TIME STORIES so it is your choice.
Don aka D71
|12-25-2005 09:57 AM|
"I wondering if etch primer has gotten a bad rap because attempts have been made to use it as a stand-alone product. It is not! "
My statement was about the apparent durability, and not to indicate that any primer should be used as a stand-alone product. Since it was my first use of a BC/CC system, I followed the recommendations of the Dupont Rep that I talked to. I had even talked to him about using an epoxy instead, and was told that they recommend the "etch primer" instead of epoxy. He told me that it was "more durable", and was "better than epoxy". The reason that came up, was because I was painting a vehicle for my son, and was concerned about it getting damaged, as most do in school parking lots, and rusting where the paint chipped or is scratched. If it is scratched to bare metal, it will rust, no doubt. If it isn't thru the paint, I want the metal to have as much protection as possible. I feel that each layer of paint should provide some sort of protection for the metal, so I want the most that I can get.
I did use the Nason 491-17 Etch Primer, and 441-43 activator, as they recommended on that project. Fortunately, the only damage that vehicle sustained was in the area that I hadn't painted.
Evidently we now have one of those people here that believe that PPG is the only paint worthy of using on an automobile!
|12-25-2005 12:13 AM|
yep I visited other forums
I really enjoy reading about the trialls and tribulations of the painting world. Some forums seem to have a lota regular guys, or atleast guys who have limited cash reserves, and I like most of the feedback I have read, to my and of course the many others I read. I like hearing what a pro would recomend vs what route a novice should take. Just like in my job, there are many nuonses(spelling problem again) to what and how I do things. This is often very different from what I would recomend others to do. The old knowing where the mines are buried thing. Anyway I enjoy learning new things. I have a few projects I plan to paint and then the stuff will all go into storage. Every few years a new hobby must begin. I do wonder about mixing base, primer and clear lines though. Most on here say that is fine, But isnt the point of letting the primer tack then seal till tacked then base, tack then more base.... so that some chemical bonding will occure instead of just a physical attraction. This is a neat forum. lots of interesting input and opinions. Still not sure about the etch primer vs epoxy. I have little doubt that epoxy is harder and seals out moisture but I which provieds better adhesion and rust prevention after the top coat is applied? sorry so wordy.
|12-24-2005 11:32 PM|
|crashtech||The self-etch primers that are good to use have two components and are NOT meant to fill anything. They act as an adhesion promoter for the primer-surfacer that will be applied wet-on-wet after the etch primer.|
|12-24-2005 06:58 PM|
|kenseth17||Boy I guess it has been a while since I've used an etch primer. Everyone one I've ever used was 1k and very thin. Just wouldn't feel safe painting over that without another primer over the top, and also you could not apply it over or under bodyfillers. Didn't realize they even made a 2k etch, maybe that would be better. Does it have any kind of thickness to it crash?|
|12-24-2005 05:50 PM|
|crashtech||After rereading your initial post, I wonder if you were sold that cheap '1K' etch primer. If so, sand it off or way down because that WILL introduce a possible shrinkage problem with any kind of film build. The etch primer I am talking about is 2K!|
|12-24-2005 05:29 PM|
|12-24-2005 05:29 PM|
|crashtech||I wondering if etch primer has gotten a bad rap because attempts have been made to use it as a stand-alone product. It is not! I see it as an adhesion promoter for 2K urethanes on metal. An analogous process is used on olefin plastic parts, where a thin layer of special adhesion promoter must be applied before primer or paint.|
|12-24-2005 04:55 PM|
I think you should try reading the Product Tech Sheets for the NASON ETCH PRIMER and FOLLOW THEM. Or better yet just read this quote and yes the link is included so you can go looky for yourself. Sorry but your friends should tell you instead of a stranger. I intend to visit a friend down SOUTH on say MONDAY.....
Besides maybe the newest offering for EDP from PPG which resist UV.
Hey Steve have you been posting at the ASET web board too?
|12-24-2005 04:02 PM|
I have a Model A tudor body that was blasted and primed with epoxy primer in 1990. The body sat outside in the weather for several years. It now has rust stains coming from between the panels, where they bolt together. I really doubt that the etch primer would have held up that good. I have used the etch primer that Nason has. The stuff that I used was not as protective from the moisture, and I have actually had to completely sand to the bare metal to remove hand prints from it. That is enough to convince me. I have also used Nason BC/CC and gotten good results from that. I would however make sure that the proper prepwork is done, including using a quality epoxy primer.
"i have no affiliation but have painted 2 cars using their products and they turn'd out fantastic...."
I have seen cars painted by Earl Scheib shops that looked fantastic when first done. Then a short time later the paint was peeling off. Sorry, but someone painting 2 cars really doesn't tell me much about a product. There are guys here that have probably painted that many in a day.
|12-24-2005 01:30 PM|
|shine||last thing i want to hear is anything from a dupont rep.|
|12-24-2005 12:17 PM|
Well never seen that before but I like it!
|12-24-2005 11:41 AM|
This is simply my opinion...
I think the etching primers and treatments work but are not as good as epoxy primer. In our product line as well as some others you can't use both, so be careful. If you always start with clean abraided metal there should be no reason for an etch. Epoxy primer will give the adhesion needed and actually give a little build too. Of course there are many acceptable methods but mine is usually epoxy prime, urethane prime, seal, topcoat.
As far as paint compainies...
Well I'm not impartial of course. But if a company makes and sells crappy paint nowdays, they won't last long. You can't sell to a shop anymore without having a lifetime warranty.
|12-24-2005 11:36 AM|
|12-24-2005 10:58 AM|
What the hell is all this about?
Why is it that almost every *paint* related group on the internet is dominated by a few people and their cheerleaders?
Anyone who doesn't toe the party line is summarily dismissed by some ranting fool.
Kirker? Never used it. How is that relevant?
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