|02-10-2006 08:36 PM|
|chadsbodyshop49119||Yeah,, he's going to have a rude awakening if he gets someone to do the work and has to go back.. sorry to say but it's true.. but good luck on your search.|
|02-10-2006 08:05 PM|
bodyshop cost for welding
At my shop, we carry a paint warranty for the finish, and not on undercoats. What is generaly done is that the time estimated to replace the quarter includes the time to prep the steel to last another decade or so. If the car comes back, the tech takes it on the chin. This helps improve the quality of the initial job, customer satisfaction, and keeps the tech's honest. A crapper of a job is easy to recognize, but even a well-prepped job may have problems. Be respectful of the shop you take your car to, and they will usualy oblige to fix problems. Also, unibody cars with big engines and good traction will flex the snot out of the quarters, so consider this before expecting the repair to last too long.
|02-10-2006 07:41 PM|
JB... I get the feeling that you have not made the shops aware of your requirements, when getting the estimates. I do know that most, if not all shops around here would have chased you away, with no estimate at all. Frankly, if I was going to give you an estimate, with those demands, it would be 10 times that much.
Sorry, but your demands are unreasonable by any standards. Brand new cars of every make and model will have rust within that time period, even with all of the new technilogies out there. I am a firm believer that rust is called "cancer" for a reason. Although alot of rust repairs have lasted a long period, people have survived cancer for long periods also. They are not considered as "cured", only as "survivors". A vehicle that has had rust repair done is also a "survivor". At some point in time, the rust will reappear somewhere.
|02-10-2006 01:48 PM|
|02-10-2006 12:21 PM|
Well crashtech pretty much sumed up what I would have posted for a reply. (The bare metal from the factory between the pinchwelds is my favorite when someone says how they removed the rust from every square inch of an old car body). Not here to argue just trying to state reality. How many restored cars have you owned Johnny? And how long have you owned them? Were they garage kept trailer queens or daily drivers?
Its like this if you weld on a full rear quarter that quarter itself should last a long long time. Now the original metal left on the car where the new quarter had to be welded to may me a different story. As far as someone leaving 1/8" of metal unwelded that is just ridiculous. GM used spot welds to hold the quarter on that were placed about an inch apart. You going to carry the rest of the car back to GM and get them to weld the joints up solid?
Please be sure to inform the shops that are giving you estimates of the terms and conditions required by you in exchange for allowing them to repair your car.
Oh yeah that camaro in the pic is runnig high 9's right now.
Anyone considering owning an old car please be aware of the fact that an old car will always be an old car and with that brings special needs in terms of care and attention to how it is stored, driven, etc. Any vehicle made that has lapped metal spot welded that was not Ecoated from the factory will always have the potential of seeping rust at the seams if kept in a wet environment. Out of all the paint products I have ever used Seam Sealer is always the first product to fail.
Rather than demanding a gaurantee on the work the shop does why not just demand that they prime the backsides of all metal they install and use cold galvanizing compound on all lapped joint metal to be welded and have them figure that into the estimate? That will go allot father than waiting for something they do to fail so you can go back and throw a fit.
|02-10-2006 11:56 AM|
Johnny Bravo, It sounds like with your talents to repair rust you should take the $3000.00 that you will spend on a the rust repair at a body shop job and invest it into a garage of your own, or rent a garage for the time that it takes YOU to fix it the way You want it fixed. I would think that a body shop would not warranty there repairs unless they repair and finish ALL the work needed. You will get much further by talking nice to other members here at HR.com
|02-10-2006 11:34 AM|
Rust can't reasonably be warranteed against, period. All a shop can do is take every known precaution to prevent its rapid advance. There are too many factors out of the control of the shop to do this and still stay in business.
I won't ever warranty a repair against rust, BUT, I do tell people that if a repair appears to be failing due to rust, bring the car by for me to look at. IF we agree that the failure is my fault, I will repair the car. That seems to satisfy people.
You need to get a grip on the fact that it is impossible to remove rust entirely from enclosed sections of a vehicle, then ensure those ares are so well coated that no further rust is possible. A lot can be done toward that end, but NO process is perfect, not even yours.
I do not for a second believe your car would weather your hypothetical test unscathed. I've seen too many rusty inner rockers and cowl pillars to believe it. BTW, how did you de-rust and coat these hidden areas? What about between the factory pinch-welds? Have you COMPLETELY disassembled every spot weld on your vehicle, applied epoxy and weld-through primers, and welded it back together? Even that cannot yield a perfect result.
|02-10-2006 11:05 AM|
I'd never ask fo a redo on work that wasn't actually done by the shop, I'm getting the qtrs fully welded in and restored, tailpan and a few small areas that I can't work on. I want my car finished and I'm always away during the summer, I dont have a heated OR waterproof garage, its cold up here so theres no way I can work on these parts myself seeing as I want my car running and DONE this summer, its got to goto a shop this winter for the stuff I don't want to do. My garage is temporary and will have to be torn down, its not on MY property. Now when my car comes back in april, I'll be able to finish all the little things, like the door jambs, dash, interior work and reskin a door, block out the other door. What I have ALREADY DONE is chemically remove the rust on the INSIDE of almost all exterior unibody, its treated and painted and sure as hell is not got to continue to rust from the inside out, the inside of the car will not rust for at least 20 years now, I can guarantee that. When they rework the qtrs and tailpan, my rustproofing will be gone around where they weld on the inside, well I'm going to crawl back into my car and recondition where the bare metal will be. I do MY work good enough that I could drive my car into the ocean, leave it sitting on a beach for months, leave huge puddles of water inside the car, TURN ON A SPRINKLER inside the car, and it will not rust, I KNOW this...of course the interior stuff would be ruined so I'd never do that. This car will outlast me if I don't destroy it by other means so I'm getting a guarantee on the welds and primer, if done and sealed right, the only way its going to rust is from exterior wear and damage, now should a 1/8" weld get missed, and that bubbles with rust under the paint, well I just want it finished right...and **** it better be finished right the 2nd time if it wasn't the first. FOR FREE, do you understand what I'm saying here? I'm paying money for a product that will be done right the first time, or the subsequent repair will be free, when done right, it WILL NOT RUST. Clear as mud?
btw, thats a very nice '69 you've got there, what does it do in the 1/4?
|02-10-2006 09:52 AM|
The majority of work that I do IS RUST REPAIR pretty much on cars just like the one you have. Like this
Don't take this the wrong way but all I can say is WHOA! with that attitude I wouldn't even consider working on that car. Where is GM's lifetime rust through warranty on that body? My point is the crafstmenship that GM did is already in a state of failure. All an individual can do is repair the damage that you are requesting. Not only are you wanting a gaurantee you are also wanting a low ball price for the work being done. I only do work for friends that are going to do at least some portion of the project themselves so I couldn't tell you what a good price would be.
Personally I would have no problem standing behind a specific patch or panel I put in if a problem arises right dead on the part that I installed. Now if I weld in a 80% quarter skin a guy brings me to install and 3 years later the sail painel starts bubbling 12" above the new skin at the drip rail and he comes back I AM NOT FIXING IT FOR FREE! Like Chad said there is no human being on earth capable of seeing rust on the backside of a piece of metal that just hasn't happened to show itself yet. I STRESS! to the people whose car I am working on the fact that old cars that get redone are still old cars. Even with brand new paint that old body can't be expected to last sitting outside in the weather day after day as if it were a 2006 E-coated new car body. When dealing with a total restoration where the front and backsides of all areas of the body are being addressed the odds are that the work will be able to survive for a very long period of time but when someone is simply stripping the exterior surfaces doing repairs and painting that job just isn't in the same category. I tell the owners of every old car I paint that they absolutely cannot expect this job to hold up for 10 years sitting outside in the weather under pine trees with no upkeep. On the other hand if they keep the car somewhat sheltered there is no telling how long the car will hold up. The way I see it the descision is up to them as to how they treat the car when it leaves me. But I don't expect them to show up ten years later complaining because I make it very clear up front I don't work like that.
From what you are stating the best suggestion I have for you is to do the work yourself. I guess the thing that strikes a nerve with me is that you are stating you want someone to just install a part and get primer on it. Then stand behind work that hasn't even been painted. If looking for a gaurantee get them to give you an estimate for a full restoration.
|02-10-2006 09:49 AM|
You can't get a 5 year guarantee on rust FOR A NEW CAR in NYS.
I guarantee rust to form within 5 years for a daily driver. And thats a BRAND NEW CAR!! My 04 Tahoe has it already. So does my 01 Silverado!
But then again, this is New York....epicenter of the Rust Belt...
Try doing the repair yourself. $3,500 buys alot of tools!
|02-10-2006 08:47 AM|
Well here's my take on things,, I tend to try and keep a open mind about things, but I do not state a rust waranty,, let's say you paint a rocker panel, and 3 yrs from now it rust from the inside out,, which is common on many vehicles,, when you painted it you didn't realize the inside was rusty.. you pushed on it, taped on it whatever,, well you painted over it as the outside looks good.. Ok now my question is how on earth can you give a full waranty on rust, you'd be doing repairs for this vehicle for a long time..
now i've done patch panels on old nasty plow trucks before,, well when the vehicle is out salting the parking lots and getting beat with salt, it's going to rust.. there's just to many different ways something can rust..
Now if i put a patch in and it were to rust right at the edge of where i patched in 6months, sure i'd fix it, but not the other cases.. that's why I just leave it open to judgement, and make it my decision if something were to come up, but if someone asks, I just say i don't warranty rust,, that way if something did come up, and I didn't see a reason for me to fix it for free the person can not get to pushy about the subject as there is no warranty, but if I think it's my fault, i'd fix it and then he'd be getting more than he thought he was going to get...
My new take on panels is,, if a bed side is rusting,, i write if for a whole bedside, that way i can get in there and really fix what's wrong, i don't write for many patch panels anymore.. unless the job calls for it and is worth putting the money into it.. such as a old muscle car or street rod, then the vehicle is worth putting the time into.. fixing a rocker on a 85 ford that's on it's way to the scrapper is not worth putting the time or money into... some people just don't understand the amount of time it takes to fix something, some people think fixing that rust hole is a 30 min job.. well that's just not the case.. but i'm done rambling, i've got parts to paint...
|02-09-2006 08:28 PM|
|adtkart||I really find it hard to believe that anyone will give an guarantee on rust repairs. Most shops in this area have signs that say otherwise, that is if they will do rust repairs at all.|
|02-09-2006 07:30 PM|
|kenseth17||I find it hard to believe they both warrenty rust work for 10 years. Majority of shops won't take it, and the ones that do normally won't put a warrenty on it, even if they do all the correct steps to protect against corrosion. Most places certified through one of the paint companys will put a lifetime warrenty on the paint for certain things, but rust is not in the warrenty. And please be respectfull to board members. I don't know how many people milo has helped out and explained things with pictures. I don't believe he was being disrespectfull towards you, but when you said five years or they better fix if for free with a smile, not common if its rust repair, its not something most shops warrenty.|
|02-09-2006 06:34 PM|
trying to nudge ya towards doing it yourself ..
sounds like your hopeing for a problem
|02-09-2006 06:19 PM|
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