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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-20-2006 08:32 PM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
Try e-bay. (I think it's) Proform makes a piston ring filer. It's a little stand, about 4 inches long X 3 inches wide and 2 inches high (measurements purely guesses based on last sighting of about 2 weeks ago), with a grinding wheel on a hand crank. They are also available electrically powered, but I found the manually cranked filer to work fine. It takes a little time, and some patience with grinding and measuring, but it seems to do a good job. Then you'll want a small file or dressing stone to dress the sharp corners and edges left behind by the filer.

Pat
Thanks I'll invest in one before I file the rings
03-20-2006 05:07 PM
PatM Try e-bay. (I think it's) Proform makes a piston ring filer. It's a little stand, about 4 inches long X 3 inches wide and 2 inches high (measurements purely guesses based on last sighting of about 2 weeks ago), with a grinding wheel on a hand crank. They are also available electrically powered, but I found the manually cranked filer to work fine. It takes a little time, and some patience with grinding and measuring, but it seems to do a good job. Then you'll want a small file or dressing stone to dress the sharp corners and edges left behind by the filer.

Pat
03-20-2006 03:42 PM
baddbob file fit for me from now on, the last set of non file fit rings I purchased (speed-pro) had a .022 gap out of the box in a perfect 4.030bore. The store took them back without hesitation.
03-20-2006 03:41 PM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
Keith Black Pistons will require fitting of the rings. Read the Keith Black instructions VERY carefully, and follow them to the letter.

Pat
Thanks I don't believe it will be a problem,but if I have any questions I will post for you guys help
03-20-2006 01:37 PM
PatM Keith Black Pistons will require fitting of the rings. Read the Keith Black instructions VERY carefully, and follow them to the letter.

Pat
03-20-2006 12:31 PM
johnsongrass1 Too much time with a fine hone and the wrong ring is hte source for a lot of those " I can't get this thing to run cool" type questions.
03-20-2006 12:29 PM
dboyett38666 Well I just ordered a set of rings and pistons.There keith black with a little of a dish to set me up at 10:1 compression ratio,and the ring lands aren't 5/64 top,and he said the ones these pitons would use would be file fit,so if anyone has any pointers,and the best tools to use I would appreciate it alot.I have a ton of feeler gages,but no ring file.Where would be the best place to get this tool?
03-19-2006 07:05 PM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIRB
The stone that is used in the hone is what gives you your final RMS finish. A 280 grit is the minimum I would use with moly rings. Nowadays, the name of the game is to simulate an already broken in bore finish with the hone. That requires leaving a minimum of .003 of stock to be honed out. A "plateau" finish is used to help remove the microscopic peaks created by the tooling of the boring machine.

These types of stones are brush looking items, and remove very little material but leave a very smooth surface for the rings to ride on. Anyone who knows anything about internal combustion engines knows that the actual seal is created by a fine film of oil that the ring rides on. This is why achieving a smooth finish with the appropriate crosshatch is important for a really good bore and hone job. Ultimate ring seal and life is the goal.

I had been producing my own version of a plateau finish years before plateau brushes were even introduced. I always left .005" of stock to hone, and used a multi-step process of honing and cooling, and switching grits until I wound up with a 600 grit cork type stone that produced a super slick bore that had the right crosshatch and sealed up beautifully without eating up the rings.

In the real world, things don't always work that way, and we have to compromise.

I've also done alot of engines in the past with a portable hone, and re-ringed with iron hastings rings. They ran like a bandit, so you can't always argue against the budget method either.

In your case, I would probably be reaching for a $25.00 set of Hastings iron rings, and you won't have to worry about the rings failing to seat.


Brian
Thanks alot
03-19-2006 02:12 PM
NAIRB The stone that is used in the hone is what gives you your final RMS finish. A 280 grit is the minimum I would use with moly rings. Nowadays, the name of the game is to simulate an already broken in bore finish with the hone. That requires leaving a minimum of .003 of stock to be honed out. A "plateau" finish is used to help remove the microscopic peaks created by the tooling of the boring machine.

These types of stones are brush looking items, and remove very little material but leave a very smooth surface for the rings to ride on. Anyone who knows anything about internal combustion engines knows that the actual seal is created by a fine film of oil that the ring rides on. This is why achieving a smooth finish with the appropriate crosshatch is important for a really good bore and hone job. Ultimate ring seal and life is the goal.

I had been producing my own version of a plateau finish years before plateau brushes were even introduced. I always left .005" of stock to hone, and used a multi-step process of honing and cooling, and switching grits until I wound up with a 600 grit cork type stone that produced a super slick bore that had the right crosshatch and sealed up beautifully without eating up the rings.

In the real world, things don't always work that way, and we have to compromise.

I've also done alot of engines in the past with a portable hone, and re-ringed with iron hastings rings. They ran like a bandit, so you can't always argue against the budget method either.

In your case, I would probably be reaching for a $25.00 set of Hastings iron rings, and you won't have to worry about the rings failing to seat.


Brian
03-19-2006 01:43 PM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIRB
I use total seal gapless ring sets on my top notch engines. I also use Speed Pro (Sealed Power), plasma moly sets that are non-file fit for certain engines.

For economy jobs and DIY type re re-ring jobs I've always used and recommended Hastings plain cast iron rings. They are the most forgiving when it comes to less than desirable cylider bores. They have alot of tension, and will conform and break in quickly and effectively. The downside to them is that they are not an ultra high mileage ring, and they are a little harder on the bores because of the tension that they have. I don't recommend that they be used with anything over a 280 grit finish. If the bore is finished with a 400 or finer grit, you need a moly type ring.

I've used alot of different types of rings with good success, so more than likely you'll be okay.

Your block is large at the bottom, which could cause some piston slap.

If you are going to go ahead with this engine, I would use cheap stuff just in case it doesn't work out, you're not out a bunch of dough on expensive parts.
Yea I think I'm going to use a hyperutectic piston,I have built alot of engines but you guys have got it down to a science,and when I find out the grit on the bore can you recommend a set of rings,Is the hone what actually puts the grit finish on the bore?
03-19-2006 11:44 AM
NAIRB I use total seal gapless ring sets on my top notch engines. I also use Speed Pro (Sealed Power), plasma moly sets that are non-file fit for certain engines.

For economy jobs and DIY type re re-ring jobs I've always used and recommended Hastings plain cast iron rings. They are the most forgiving when it comes to less than desirable cylider bores. They have alot of tension, and will conform and break in quickly and effectively. The downside to them is that they are not an ultra high mileage ring, and they are a little harder on the bores because of the tension that they have. I don't recommend that they be used with anything over a 280 grit finish. If the bore is finished with a 400 or finer grit, you need a moly type ring.

I've used alot of different types of rings with good success, so more than likely you'll be okay.

Your block is large at the bottom, which could cause some piston slap.

If you are going to go ahead with this engine, I would use cheap stuff just in case it doesn't work out, you're not out a bunch of dough on expensive parts.
03-19-2006 11:26 AM
xntrik You asked what is the best rings?

I prefer full-circle gapless rings.

BUT as was pointed out above, the cylinder wall finish is important to the material of the rings themselves. Things must be compatable.
03-19-2006 11:15 AM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM
Are you the same guy that had this 400 block to 2 different machine shops because the first shop screwed up the bore job? Then took it to a another shop to have it fixed? Now the bore is .003 too big at the bottom? If this is a fresh motor and just been bored it is screwed up. We bore blocks all the time and it runs out about .0002 top to bottom. .003 is way off as far as I am concerned.
Yea thats me,but I believe its to far at the bottom of the block to hurt,and I know it want touch the rings,and I seen blocks that have been clearanced up to as far as the low spot is in the cylinder for stroker engines,but if it is I'm sure I will find out the first pass,or the first time it cranks,and believe me I will post,and let everyone know.
03-19-2006 08:35 AM
RPM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dboyett38666
Thanks I'll use the standard end gap,its much easier that way.I had another post about the 400 block I am building.It has 3 thousands more clearance at the bottom of the cylinder hope its all-right
Are you the same guy that had this 400 block to 2 different machine shops because the first shop screwed up the bore job? Then took it to a another shop to have it fixed? Now the bore is .003 too big at the bottom? If this is a fresh motor and just been bored it is screwed up. We bore blocks all the time and it runs out about .0002 top to bottom. .003 is way off as far as I am concerned.
03-19-2006 08:05 AM
dboyett38666
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer434
i like the file fit rings i have built a few 400`s and alot of ford
file fitting rings arnt that bad about a hour longer to do the motor
youll need a fuller gauge,a ring file and thats about it
good luck with your 400
Its a small block chevy with a 4.185 bore
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