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Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine> Port CFM vs. Valve Size vs. Port Velocity...Data WANTED!
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Thread: Port CFM vs. Valve Size vs. Port Velocity...Data WANTED! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-17-2006 12:37 PM
TwinturboEFI454 11:1 Compression Will Not Make A Good Street Car

As Far As Head Flow......i Suggest Small Block 400 Heads Ported To The Max.then Fitted With Oversized Valves..around 480-550cfm......truthfully..if You Spend More Timde Getting The Heads Right You Will Have 550+ Hp... Next Is Cam,headers,
Intake\carb( By The Way Two 5oocfm Carbs May Be Pushing It ...you Will Definately Need So Strengthen Ur Bottom End With Arp Bolts....and Billet Connection Rods.
04-17-2006 10:20 AM
Elevinpointsixtoone Amen!
Its all good...sorry if I sounded defensive. I enjoy the debate once in a while too...lol.
Now that I have the heads figure out (AFR 195 Street heads) I'll call the cam guys. For once I'm going to pick the cam after I know what the heads will do.
Now, let this sucker die!
04-17-2006 07:09 AM
cool rockin daddy Check yourself for a minute. Wow! $800 bucks 17 years ago!! That's less than $50 bucks a year for those fantastic heads that are OUTDATED!. It happens. My point is it really doesn't matter what everybody else is running. Get the flow numbers of the various heads (once again they are available just about anywhere on the net, chevyhiperformance.com has an excellent independent study of most available heads), match the heads to your cam (you sound intelligent so I am sure you know it's lift and duration), decide what you want to do with the car, and pick a brand. You can't go wrong with Dart, AFR, Canfield, and Brodix. If you match the heads to the cam and the usage you will be within ten horspower from one of those heads to the other. Good luck and happy hotrodding.
04-16-2006 12:04 AM
Elevinpointsixtoone
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
The point is he originally was talking about Corvette L-98 heads that would make 500 h.p. for $500 bucks! Lingengelter charges $1800 per pair for fully ported L-98 heads! Go to Chevy high performance and get the flow tests and pick your head. AFR 215's come immediately to mind but they don't cost $500 bucks. As usual, people have taken a thread and got it all off track. 500 h.p. heads for $500? Come on. Any of the head makers or cam makers can tell him what is going to be required for his goals. Cylinder head questions have been asked hundreds of times and invariably the guy who posts the original question doesn't like the replies he gets and it goes on and on. What the heck does it matter what everyone else is using? It's called hotrodding! Find out for yourself. Do some research. Thats what the hobby is all about unless you are into bellybutton cars that all look the same under the hood
First off who made you the thread monitor? If I don't like a thread I don't keep reading it! But I sure as hell don't ***** about in the thread.
This is a place for said research...or the beginnings of that...its a resource not a place to show off or beat up others for asking questions!
Second, I didn't come up with $500 worth of port work would make 500HP...others did...so chew them out not me. Since I paid about $800 for these heads back in 89 I would really be looking at a total investment of about $1400....more than some new AFR's or Edelbrocks. It also became apparent that even with porting the L-98's would fall short....but once again I never said my budget was $500...it was a comparison of money spent here or money spent there would get you what? Bang for the buck says buy new. I had my question answered and a whole lot more and I am very appreciative of that...isn't that what this forum is for?
I didn't notice you busting the balls of the kid asking about gear drives...again, for the 100th time in this forum....now talk about redundant...but who cares. He doesn't know old sour thread monitors are retching up their biscuits just thinking about gear drives! If you can't say anything nice.....I think my grandmother was right.
I wasn't going to post another reply but I couldn't resist. I enjoy this place too much not too!
04-15-2006 06:49 PM
cool rockin daddy The point is he originally was talking about Corvette L-98 heads that would make 500 h.p. for $500 bucks! Lingengelter charges $1800 per pair for fully ported L-98 heads! Go to chevy high performance and get the flow tests and pick your head. AFR 215's come immediately to mind but they don't cost $500 bucks. As usual, people have taken a thread and got it all off track. 500 h.p. heads for $500? Come on. Any of the head makers or cam makers can tell him what is going to be required for his goals. Cylinder head questions have been asked hundreds of times and invariably the guy who posts the original question doesn't like the replies he gets and it goes on and on. What the heck does it matter what everyone else is using? It's called hotrodding! Find out for yourself. Do some research. Thats what the hobby is all about unless you are into bellybutton cars that all look the same under the hood
04-15-2006 02:26 PM
Elevinpointsixtoone Just a note: I have been calling around...the response from each manufacturer is predictable....they all say they have the superior product...they have the perfect head for my application and so on. The AFR guy had nothing good to say about Edelbrock...not surprising which ilustrates to me, as expected, I need to ask the machinists, drivers and engine builders what has worked for them....thats you guys!
At this point I'm hunting down some AFR's mostly because they will machine the head down to make the chamber size I'm looking for . Sallie (probably spelled it wrong) out of OR has many in-stock with various custom chamber sizes for $1295....Now I need to get those L-98's up on e-bay!
Thanks to everyone who has posted....great thread
04-15-2006 10:35 AM
xntrik
Quote:
Originally Posted by automotive breath
We see things a little differently. I don't see a problem with a thread going on for a long time.

Secondly I don't believe buying an affordable out the box head to generate 500 streetable HP from a flat top 383 is as easy as making a phone call to your favorite head manufacturer.

I agree, amen.

If I might address # 30 and # 35.

CNC porting usually includes the intake runner match and exhaust port match as well as chamber shape.

Most every head can be improved by a super competent porter. AFR and Edelbrock do well right out of the box..... not REQUIRING additional work.
04-15-2006 09:37 AM
automotive breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
I am a littel amazed that this thread has gone on so long. AFR, Canfield, Dart Pro 1, Brodix all make heads that will support your goals. Give them a call, give them your engine specs. and listen to what they say. Have fun.
We see things a little differently. I don't see a problem with a thread going on for a long time.

Secondly I don't believe buying an affordable out the box head to generate 500 streetable HP from a flat top 383 is as easy as making a phone call to your favorite head manufacturer.
04-14-2006 03:49 PM
Thinking Man I would like to address your exhaust question by way of one example. I have a set of Brodix Track 1 heads on my '56 2dr post. Short and to the point. I pulled a Vortec setup off the top of the engine. Replaced it with the Brodix heads, intake manifold change etc, etc... The exhaust, rams horn manifolds for now, bolted right up. I was more than pleased with every aspect of these particular heads. Others may be better. I do expect to go to headers in the near future and see no reason that if they will fit a stock SBC they will fit my heads. Brodix (479) 394-1075. No commission.
04-14-2006 02:56 PM
cool rockin daddy I am a littel amazed that this thread has gone on so long. AFR, Canfield, Dart Pro 1, Brodix all make heads that will support your goals. Give them a call, give them your engine specs. and listen to what they say. Have fun.
04-14-2006 12:55 PM
automotive breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevinpointsixtoone
... some manufacturers do include or offer CMC port finishing which I should have asked "is that coming close, as they claim it is, to a professional port job"? ......
AFR sells a high quality product. The CNC work is awesome with little or no port to port variation. A professional porter can improve them but it's not required to make the power you are looking for.

I do a lot of work on the Edelbrock performer heads, they are a great design but I spend 15-20 hours porting to reach 500+ HP.

Headers can be a problem no mater what heads you chose. The edelbrock heads will match better than AFR.
04-14-2006 12:49 PM
ztoy go to this site, and give them a call. Their pricing on Brodix might be surprisingly affordable. Its worth a call to find out. Talk to Tony
tonybarkerracingengines.com

From what I have learned, CNC porting is not the same as a professional prt job but it much better than the same head without the CNC porting. I believe they only port the combustion chamber when doing the CNC ing type of port work from the manufacturer
04-14-2006 12:39 PM
Elevinpointsixtoone I'm getting a better feel for the products....I should have asked in the previous question that some manufacturers do include or offer CMC port finishing which I should have asked "is that coming close, as they claim it is, to a professional port job". So far AFR looks to offer most finishing. The Edelbrock E-tecs which I thought looked like a contender, if I'm reading it right, are for the lates generation of blocks, not my early casting (1974). So I'm going to look at the RPM heads again and try find something from Trick Flow althought their site shows mostly Ford products. I didn't find a Twisted Wedge any longer.
I'll ask this again, any problems bolting up headers made for GM exhaust patterns? Of course buying heads stating they are factory patterns.....
04-14-2006 08:55 AM
ztoy From what I have found when I was searching for al heads is that CNC porting is available for AFR's, but they do not all come that way. I addition they have to be milled down if you want any sized chamber other than the 76cc (I believe thats the size) chambers as they are made. AFR's do flow great, but the way they do their flow testing is not the same as do other manufacturers so when comparing flow numbers its not like comparing apples to apples. But I am sure other head manufacturers also make their numbers look as good as possible as well.
04-14-2006 07:39 AM
automotive breath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevinpointsixtoone
.... is there a head you can you run out of the box, that would not bennefit greatly from port work? Or, which comes the closest? .....
Most affordable 23 degree valve angle heads come with as cast ports and combustion chambers. Casting technology has improved over the years and some manufacturers include mild porting in there manufacturing process, such is the case with edelbrock.

AFR heads include CNC porting in their manufacturing process delivering consistent out of the box performance.

Other manufactures deliver CNC ported heads but I'm not familiar with them.
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