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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-10-2006 09:00 PM
oldsmo I am going to call Zep rep tomorrow. I am really interested in how much it will be to get rid of this stuff. The way people are talking that will probably be the determining factor whether or not to even bother.

It appears that the real hazard with this stuff is when it is heated. When cold you have time to wash off or neutralize it but i was told when hot it will probably be an immediate burn.
07-10-2006 08:49 PM
home brew I am not advocating the use of sodium hydroxide in any process other than maybe using it as a household cleanser as it comes from the store. I just thought if anyone did use it they needed to be aware of the difficulties adn safety concerns.
07-10-2006 08:28 PM
oldred Home brew, It may be ok to neutralize the stuff (if done properly) in it's pure form and pour it down the drain but we are talking 50 gal of used dip tank fluid here and that will bear little resemblance to a clean Sodium Hydroxide solution. We can toss this back and forth all day long with technicalities but the bottom line is you are going to have one hell of a time legally getting rid of that used fluid when the time comes, guaranteed!
07-10-2006 08:28 PM
home brew If you didn't read the above info and you use sodium hydroxide you are putting yourself in danger!!!!!!!!!!

This is very dangerous stuff if mixed incorrectly and with the wrong substances.
07-10-2006 05:50 PM
oldsmo Clean Water Act Requirements:

Designated as a hazardous substance under section 311(b)(2)(A) of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act and further regulated by the Clean Water Act Amendments of 1977 and 1978. These regulations apply to discharges of sodium hydroxide.
[40 CFR 116.4 (7/1/85)] **QC REVIEWED**

http://www.frankmckinnon.com/sodium_hydroxide1.htm
07-10-2006 02:40 PM
home brew Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) can be neutralized and flushed into the sewer system. It is very corrosive and should be handled very carefully. Check out this link:

http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/sodium_hydroxide.html
07-10-2006 01:43 PM
46chevyfleetline Yepper Oldred, you are absolutely correct. Sure it is deluted because it is discharged with alot of other water going out the same main drain. Does it eventually breakdown and disappear? Who knows? But boy when it comes to the little guy watch your a**. Its alot easier to fine and control the little guy. He can't afford million dollar lawyers and hold it up in court for decades. Hey just the way it is. Thats all. Cheers!!!
07-10-2006 12:49 PM
oldred 46, Good point but we know that no one would do that if it is against the law now would they?

Actually now after thinking about it if they are using a dilute mix it very well may be within legal limits but I still don't think I would want to get caught dumping 50 gal of anything even remotely resembling dip tank fluid down the drain or any place else. The household drain cleaner contains a very strong mix and in fact the stuff is quite hazardous
07-10-2006 11:43 AM
46chevyfleetline Hi Oldred; Don't be too sure not in the USA. I do know of one company in Pittsburg that flushes caustic everyday. At least up to two years ago. You would be surprised. And I would almost bet my life on it. Maybye not right but you know as well as I do. When it comes to the almighty buck us little guys are gonna lose. Cheers!!!
07-10-2006 11:20 AM
oldred 46, Not here in the USA! If some outfit were flushing large amounts of Sodium Hydroxide, especially if contaminated with engine sludge, someone would go to jail! I am sure very diluted amounts will be ok, I mean look at household drain cleaners they contain Sodium Hydroxide but not in huge amounts.
07-10-2006 11:02 AM
46chevyfleetline Caustic soda is used extensively in the food industry for cleaning product lines. Heated and circulated for a couple of hours then flushed with fresh water. Where do you think the caustic goes. It sure aint stored in a tank. Down the drain and out in the lakes or rivers.
07-10-2006 09:11 AM
oldsmo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckucia
With regards to getting rid of the stuff when you're done...

IIRC, Sodium Hydroxide is a strong base.

If you mix a base with an acid, you end up with water and a salt.

Might want to check with a chemist, but you may be able to neutralize the sodium hydroxide with the right acid to render it harmless.

My chemistry is a little rusty, but I think hydrochloric acide (muriatic acid) might work. You would end up with salt water (full of whatever you cleaned out of the block). Probably dont want to pour a huge amount of salty water down the drain at once, but you could get rid of it without the danger of sodium hydroxide and its not going to burn or explode.

Would likely have to be done in small batches with extreme care. A possible problem might be the acid's reaction with whatever came off the block.

Check with someone who knows for certain.
I was told I could use a regular white viniger to stablize it(I think that is what he said). I don't know how much, I guess I would have to do the math. But I guess a stronger acid would use alot less. I am an environmental kind of guy, down the drain it out of the question.
07-10-2006 08:11 AM
ckucia Oldred,

Agree with you on all points. I haven't had to deal personally with waste disposal for awhile, but I suspect it could take some time to do properly.

I'd rather have a big vat of contaminated salty water to dispose of than a big vat of contaminated sodium hydroxide. Just the idea of a large quantity of NaOH sitting around makes me nervous - its too nasty.

I think the important thing, though, is to figure out what the entire process is going to have to be - from obtaining the product, to using it safely, and all the way through to proper disposal - before starting anything.

I suspect when all the costs are figured to do it right, it will end up being cheaper to have it done by someone else who specializes in this sort of thing.
07-10-2006 07:09 AM
oldred I would strongly recommend against mixing ANY chemicals unless you know for sure what is going to occur when you do. Look what can happen if you mix laundry bleach with toilet bowel cleaner! The warnings are on the label and the potential deadly results are well known but still it happens all the time
07-10-2006 12:51 AM
sbchevfreak
Quote:
IIRC, Sodium Hydroxide is a strong base.

If you mix a base with an acid, you end up with water and a salt.

Might want to check with a chemist, but you may be able to neutralize the sodium hydroxide with the right acid to render it harmless.

My chemistry is a little rusty, but I think hydrochloric acide (muriatic acid) might work. You would end up with salt water (full of whatever you cleaned out of the block). Probably dont want to pour a huge amount of salty water down the drain at once, but you could get rid of it without the danger of sodium hydroxide and its not going to burn or explode.
I would advise against this. My chemistry is also pretty rusty, but mixing a strong acide and a strong base will cause some intense, and possibly toxic fumes. Check with local authorities on disposal,
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