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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-08-2013 10:57 AM
rossshn
My first paint job with acrylic enamel gloss black

This Is with Nason 8555 Gloss Black Acrylic Enamel mix 8:1:2
my first full vehicle paint job,
2 coats of hotrod black 2K primer,followed by 800 grit wetsanding
3 coats of Gloss Black
wet sanded with 2000 grit
buffed 3M rubbing compound
polished with Turtle wax polishing compound
and topped off with Mequires show time
05-21-2011 10:55 PM
Christian1 Looks like you need an air dryer.waterbmixing with your paint from the compressor...
08-26-2006 11:39 AM
KNanthrup
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseth17
Nice job, and way to hang in there. Thanks for updating, I am sure others, as well as I like to hear how things turned out, and if the person asking questions was helped. 2 stroke, I don't think most painters are ever totally satisfyed with their work. They will always pick out that one little flaw they got that nobody else even notices.
There are many potential problems that can bite you when painting, but least once you have some experience most of the times you can adjust, do stuff to minimize the problem, or at least have an idea what the heck happened. Next time should go better for you with the knowledge you gained. Base clear should be a little easier also That single stage ae doesn't have the life expectancy of a good quality base clear system, but if taken care of and protected it should last many years for you. I don't know how much you have in the paint job, but even with a few mess ups and repainting you should come out ahead, discounting getting all the equiptment needed. Plus you never know what you would of got if you had brought it somewhere. Shops have overhead and schedules to keep. Yeah that wetsanding and buffing is plenty of work, just like the rest of it. I split the last buff over a few days I had enough areas that needed fixing. Again, nice job. . Now be prepared for family, friends and some of those kidies in college to be bugging you to paint their cars, What did you end up doing as far as your air setup? and did it perform okay. I am usually pretty good on not having moisture in my lines with my cheap setup, but painting in the real humid weather on the last car, was fighting a bit with water from the line, and kept draining the trap.
Thanks a lot kenseth,
I want to say thanks especially to you because you're kind of the main guy who has been patient and consistant with your replies to my posts. Not all veteran painters have patience to help a newbie with some cheapie single stage learning.

As far as satisfaction goes... it's hard not to complain about parts of the paint but at the same time it's stupid for me to. Let me tell you, I started off just wanting to get any shape of a paint job on this truck before I left it for college so just for protection factor. From there the obsession starts and I ended up getting more and more picky. Things like bodywork I was originally going to neglect I ended up spending days on. Then as you know it took me weeks to figure out my painbt process, etc. And with the lack of a professional paint setup (booth, ventillation, etc.) it just added to the problem. So I went from not really caring to being absolutely picky about everything.

In total after buying primer, paint, reducers, hardeners, sand paper, masking stuff I have about $350 into the paint job. Add another $30 for my compounding products. Then $40 for my ebay HVLP gun. And almost forgot my compressor setup which I spend about $60 on a large filter, 2 small filters, and an at-gun regulator.

What I ended up using for my air setup was I ran a 50ft. hose from the compressor up into the rafters around the garage making up and down dips, then I had a large moisture filter at the end of that, then connected another 50ft. hose from that up and around which ended at my gun which had a small disposable air/water filter on it right before the regulator. To the best I could tell that setup worked pretty well for being half-arsed. I did not get any water out of the gun. I did end up keeping the large filter cracked open slightly because it was getting quite a big of water from my hard working meager compressor. I may have gotten small amount of moisture and garbage through the hose but I blamed most of my cleanliness issues on my garage setting itself. Fortunately, a light wetsanding cleaned up the surface of the paint real well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cab
KNanthrup - definitely want to say I appreciate you taking the time to post all of this and really admire your diligence. I hope to paint my first ride late next year or early the following year (acquiring parts, supplies, tools, etc. now), and hopefully your experience will help!
Not a problem, I know there have been some people following this thread and I would love to share my experience from them. I've compiled some first-time experiences in the automotive field that I'm going to get onto my website some time in the future. Once again this job was something that wasn't all that critical so I wasn't afraid to tackle it. I'm glad others got something out of it too. Good luck with your paint job coming up. Please feel free to shoot me any questions if you think I can help. It's the least I can do after everyone who has helped me.
08-26-2006 11:06 AM
KNanthrup
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2stroketurbo
It looks fantastic to me. Are you happy with it ? what happened to the dry spots ? The only thing I see wrong is your tail pipes are skewed to the right
Thanks a lot. I am actually very happy with it. I tell you what, the biggest part of the process that saved the look of my paint (because of all the flaws from imperfect variables) was the wetsanding/color sanding process. Basically all that dust and crap that layed over the top of my paint came right out with some 2000 grit. In areas where the orange peel got pretty bad I went through with 1500 then followed with 2000. My paint was still pretty soft so it actually cut out the peel pretty quickly and easily. The biggest pain was that pretty much the whole truck has issues with dust in it, so I had to go over the entire truck wetsanding then compounding with a fairly aggressive compound, then following with a lighter cleaner/polish to smoothe out the heavy compounds marks. All in all a pretty straight-forward process, just took some time.

So, all of that overspray that I was worried about in the first place didn't even matter, it cleaned right off very easily. The overspray from my spray patterns cleaned off with very light 2000grit sanding... now if I had known this before I wouldn't have stressed out about it so much!

I am aware that my tailpipes are uneven, my exhaust isn't anywhere near finished (hanging by wires and clamps) but I need it stuck on there somehow to keep the neighbors and police happy

So all in all it's not perfect... the paint itself still has some light swirls and marks in it which I will be taking out later once I get a real orbital D/A. The hardest part to finish will be getting the remaining runs out. Unfortunately I have a handful of them and some of them are in real nasty places (curved areas, trim areas) but I bought a meguiars unigrit block which will hopefully make that work a little easier.

Thanks again for everyones help. I will try to get some more pictures up soon.
08-26-2006 10:46 AM
cab KNanthrup - definitely want to say I appreciate you taking the time to post all of this and really admire your diligence. I hope to paint my first ride late next year or early the following year (acquiring parts, supplies, tools, etc. now), and hopefully your experience will help!
08-26-2006 04:51 AM
kenseth17 Nice job, and way to hang in there. Thanks for updating, I am sure others, as well as I like to hear how things turned out, and if the person asking questions was helped. 2 stroke, I don't think most painters are ever totally satisfyed with their work. They will always pick out that one little flaw they got that nobody else even notices.
There are many potential problems that can bite you when painting, but least once you have some experience most of the times you can adjust, do stuff to minimize the problem, or at least have an idea what the heck happened. Next time should go better for you with the knowledge you gained. Base clear should be a little easier also That single stage ae doesn't have the life expectancy of a good quality base clear system, but if taken care of and protected it should last many years for you. I don't know how much you have in the paint job, but even with a few mess ups and repainting you should come out ahead, discounting getting all the equiptment needed. Plus you never know what you would of got if you had brought it somewhere. Shops have overhead and schedules to keep. Yeah that wetsanding and buffing is plenty of work, just like the rest of it. I split the last buff over a few days I had enough areas that needed fixing. Again, nice job. . Now be prepared for family, friends and some of those kidies in college to be bugging you to paint their cars, What did you end up doing as far as your air setup? and did it perform okay. I am usually pretty good on not having moisture in my lines with my cheap setup, but painting in the real humid weather on the last car, was fighting a bit with water from the line, and kept draining the trap.
08-25-2006 11:10 PM
2stroketurbo It looks fantastic to me. Are you happy with it ? what happened to the dry spots ? The only thing I see wrong is your tail pipes are skewed to the right
08-25-2006 10:15 PM
KNanthrup Just wanted to update and say I'm pretty much done with her.

Thanks to everyone for all your help. I will post more details later, im tired out tonight after all my buffing and polishing... time for some beer!

Anyways, this is how shes looking. more pics to come...
07-31-2006 04:17 PM
kenseth17 Don't feel bad kn. I just painted a car this weekend, and things didn't go too great. Lots of heat and humidity. Things went pretty well till I got to the clear. I wanted to get it cleared this weekend while I had time to make sure the base was covered within the window. Had problems with my gun and also not getting dry areas going around the car. All the top surfaces are loaded with dirt specks that I have no Idea where it all came from. Even though I was having problems, I kept going with the clear. I figured its better to have to spot base and repaint a few panels if neccessary then have the base get out of the time window with limited hours to work on during the week. If the base got out of its window then that would mean scuffing it all and spraying more color as well as masking again for the two color scheme. Plus its only going to get hotter Today and tommorrow. Right now I am slowly wetsanding and buffing to see what I can salvage in high 90's weather. This is after spending most of the weekend in a hot and humid garage. As far as material costs, I used both a base and clear that weren't overly expensive. 2 quarts of silver metallic base, 1 quart of black metallic, plus the hardener and reducer for them ran me $161. 2qts of clear and 2qts of activator for it ran me just over $100. I have the same problem with light in my garage and its not real fun not being able to see totally what you are doing. Not having the best conditions and fighting things like the weather, lack of lighting, insects, ect can be a real drag.
07-31-2006 03:53 PM
KNanthrup
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2stroketurbo
Way to stick with it man! It's looking good. The flip side of going through so much paint.....you don't have to worry about your paint being too thin...ha ha! I hope the new AE you buy matches Ok. After reading about your troubles, I'll never do single stage. From what I read BC/CC is the way to go. I hate to say it, but looking back, it may have been cheaper for you too. Although, you gained some great expirience in doing what you did........and, whats that worth?
Thanks a lot for your comment. I agree on every level. As far as cost goes... im not sure how it works out. I began this project just to get a decent looking cheap coat on my truck before I leave it at home for college this fall. Single stage AE was my only cost-efficient option.

The single stage stuff is really a pain in the butt trying to get to come out right in just a couple of passes over the panel. I've found that plenty of optimum lighting is very essential, especially for single stage because in my journey i have found that i left dry spots or overspray spots or didn't get the paint thick enough in areas that were not noticable at a different angle. I ended up carrying around a 1500watt lamp to blast at whatever panel I was doing. The solid black color just sucks up the artificial light and doesn't give me good feedback.

The paint is PPG Omni AE, it cost me about $80 for the gallon. I'm not sure what a basic BC/CC setup costs, but my understanding was atleast a few hundred bucks. Despite being extremely difficult for me to spray, I am fairly surprised with how nice the look of the paint is, it came out very deep and glossy and right not im just trying to see the potential behind it after a good wetsand/polish. In a few years the truck will be redone in a nicer BC/CC job, but I need to get through my last 2 years of college first. In the mean time I want protection while looking as good as my budget minded newbie skills can get it.
07-31-2006 01:29 PM
2stroketurbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNanthrup
I did the drivers side of the cab and door yesterday. It came out fairly good, not perfect as I would like but I'm hoping I can wetsand the imperfections out after a while. Unfortunately At this point ive run out of paint as well. Man I burnt through that whole gallon fast with the issues I was having. I'm hoping I can get away with maybe 2 quarts to finish the truck off, I don't want to have to spend the cash on another full gallon.
Way to stick with it man! It's looking good. The flip side of going through so much paint.....you don't have to worry about your paint being too thin...ha ha! I hope the new AE you buy matches Ok. After reading about your troubles, I'll never do single stage. From what I read BC/CC is the way to go. I hate to say it, but looking back, it may have been cheaper for you too. Although, you gained some great expirience in doing what you did........and, whats that worth?
07-31-2006 01:17 PM
blacksunshine Pictures never do justice, but looks good to me!! Nice shine hellova lot better than your previous attempts.
07-31-2006 12:02 PM
KNanthrup I did the drivers side of the cab and door yesterday. It came out fairly good, not perfect as I would like but I'm hoping I can wetsand the imperfections out after a while. Unfortunately At this point ive run out of paint as well. Man I burnt through that whole gallon fast with the issues I was having. I'm hoping I can get away with maybe 2 quarts to finish the truck off, I don't want to have to spend the cash on another full gallon.
07-29-2006 09:48 PM
KNanthrup Ok, time for an update.


So I picked up a gallon of slow reducer the other day to try out. The (very knowledgable) lady at the paint shop gave me a few tips, she also said watch the spray pattern getting too wide for the overspray problem, also play with air pressure.

So with that, I gave it another shot today. Before I even got started I found one huge problem with my gun that had been hindering its performance. I didn't even think about pulling the front of it out where the fluid flows through, so I did and what I found was the Urethane 2k primer I had been using had gunked up the fluid flow area inside the gun like crazy. Little soft chunks of primer were jammed in there and it was no wonder I couldn't get good flow out of my gun before. All this despite my thorough flushing of the gun after use.

I decided to give the front clip another run. I'm finding that the hood (being on the truck) while the truck is lifted up on jack stands, is the most difficult pain in the *** thing to paint because it is such a large panel and I have to lean over it without touching from in front of it and work across it thoroughly. Best thing I could do was build a platform in front of it for me to stand on so I could lean over it easier.

In my practice, I found that the best solution for my dry/overspray problem is laying on the coats really thick. If I got my patterns down wet enough, when I came back across below it with the next pattern it would still be wet enough to eat the overspray into it. With this I was able to do much better with my overall finish. I also adjusted the fan down to minimize the overspray on the outside of the pattern. Needless to say I was much happier with my results, which are probably acceptable by my standards, but I still have more issues to improve on.

My freshly cleaned gun was flowing a lot more paint than I was used to and I ended up getting several runs on the sides of the fenders. I had to play with the fluid adjustment at the top of the gun and set it down a little.

The other problem, despite my improvement, is that I still have a slight bit of overspray/dry spotting. This is mostly when I run down a panel about halfway and then see a spot I need to touch a little on and when I hit it, I get that roughness over what I had just sprayed. It's so weird how it flashes so quickly. Although, before I use the word "flash", maybe I should know exactly what "flashing" means? I always assumed it was the stage where it dried enough to have a tacky skin over the top of the liquid paint. I swear to god my paint is in that state where I CANNOT go back over it after it has sit for about 15-20 seconds because it has a skin on it that quickly and the overspray sits on top making it rough, unless I hit the whole area again and by that time, the spot further below is flashed before I get back to it. So it's a frustrating process which i am narrowly beating through wet patterns and careful panel shooting routes.


One last important thing... Is it feasible to be able to wetsand the runs out of the paint? I can't imagine resanding the entire panel and repainting because of a few runs. If this will work, how long do I need to paint before wetsanding the panel after applying fresh paint? Will a polish bring back the gloss even after wetsanding AE single stage?


.
.
.

Ok here are some updated pics. Keep in mind I have only recently shot the front clip... hood, and two front fenders. The door is a mess from previous.
07-24-2006 04:06 PM
kenseth17 Well that one picture looks like you got it laying out pretty nicely. I still think the dry streaks may be a combination of the reducer you are using, as well as it temp range and maybe not quite having your overlap and keeping the gun parallel at the same distance. A small fender which is sitting vertical is easier to spray consistant then when you are reaching across to the center of a hood and then have to go get the other half. It is also a much larger panel, which means you need the edges to stay wet longer. Maybe slow down a little with your passes keeping about 6 inches away or so, and a slower reducer or when temps are lower. You can slow down on the hood- vertical panels. You really have to be dumping it on to get a run. I can certainly see how you would be getting frustrated and not want to buy even more material. Once you learn on this enamel, you will have much more knowledge for the future. Don't give up, looks like you are getting there and making much improvement. You get this enamel down, switch to base clear urethane on your next project and it probably wll go pretty easily for you. This is how we learn, from our mistakes. Even painting for years we still have a problems from time to time wondering what the hell went wrong. I had a real problem with getting dry spray like I said earlier with nason urethane clear. It was only a bike frame, which isn't a large area, but with that activator it was flashing off so fast I could keep it wet. I ended up having another gun filled with straight reducer so I could hit any dry areas right away. I got away with it, but it would be risky if you were using a metalic. I know you are painting a solid, but if you sprayed reducer on top to try to get rid of a dry area and sprayed too much causing a run, with a single stage metallic, it is likely that the metallic will move and pool, making it darker there. Rereading your post, I am sorry to say, I would repaint to get rid of the dry streaks. If you only put one coat on, thats not going to be enough, even though you have the old paint under there. You need 2-3 new coats for buffing purposes. I am not absoulutely positive with enamel, but most likely the case being it is activated.
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