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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-24-2006 07:05 AM
1931 steve This will be my last post on this because you are right we could argue for ever.

Quote:
Steve/ I DID NOT SAY that ALL ASE mechanics are incompetent and thieves. So why do you guys take it personally?
You certainly did not specify that you were not talking about all ASE techs. I take it very personally, I make my living and support my family from turning my wrenches as a ASE tech. So yes I do take it personally.....

Quote:
Generally, shops would rather hire a kid with the piece of paper than someone who can actually do the work because the kid will work for half the money and install tons of stuff in his quest for a repair = more money for the shop.
You are wrong about this, Most shops NOT ALL would rather hire a very good experienced auto tech over a young kid. The problem is that the younger guy is the only one out there to hire. (have to start somewhere).
A shop will make more money off a good experienced tech any day of the week. The only place he wouldn't would be in a quick lube lane...

Quote:
Let me ask you. Have you, STEVE, and do you know several other people who have taken their vehicles into ASE shops for repair and $ 800 later it still isn't fixed and the shop still wants their money as they tell you to take it somewhere else?
No, I have never nor do I know anybody that has. MOST of the time when things like this happen there are more reasons for it than the customer is willing to tell. I know at my shop if we or I cant fix it I will not charge for the attempted repair. But if it is the customer that does not want to spend any more money or for any other reasons that they don't want to go further, by all means I will charge them. All cars can be fixed, it's just if the customer is willing to spend the money to do so. JMHO.


Good find on the mustang rotor, Most of the problems that get overlooked is just that, overlooked. Yes they are some shops out there that just cant fix a car, it is a shame. but it wont take long for that shop or that auto tech to get a bad name and go away.

So I will end MY side of this conversation with this.
I am a ASE Certified tech and very proud of it, I take much pride in the fact that I can repair just about any car that comes in my doors. As in any industries out there, they are a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean all the apples are bad

Steve
08-23-2006 08:32 PM
xntrik [QUOTE=67 Deuce 4 Me]As a auto technician I totally agree.

As far as ASE goes my own personal thoughts are is that being ASE certified means your able to study a book and pass a test and thats it. I think its a money racket. IMHO. Ed Cannon........ ASE Master tech.[/QUOTE]

Thanks ED.
Cool stated some important logic, too.


Steve/ I DID NOT SAY that ALL ASE mechanics are incompetant and thieves. So why do you guys take it personally?

I said in # 5..... quote

"We have created a society of parts replacers. ASE techs are taught to read gauges and swap parts. Very little dianostic understanding is necessary. Ethics and honesty are long gone from most shops. Ancient techniques such as carburetors are dying with the old timers who have gone into seclusion........Finding ethical and knowledgeable technicians is a trick in itself. Look for an old guy under a backyard garage roof." end- quote

Generally, shops would rather hire a kid with the piece of paper than someone who can actually do the work because the kid will work for half the money and install tons of stuff in his quest for a repair = more money for the shop.

Let me ask you. Have you, STEVE, and do you know several other people who have taken their vehicles into ASE shops for repair and $ 800 later it still isn't fixed and the shop still wants their money as they tell you to take it somewhere else?

You can take it personally and argue forever, but that won't make it untrue.

Yesterday on another thread I commented about a 93 Mustang GT that had a old style short rotor inside the big distributor cap (1/2+ inch spark gap). Seven shops including Ford could not find his miss. I did, in less than 3 minutes. And yes, I kind of enjoy people seeking me out under my shade tree to fix the stuff the shops cannot.

That is the beauty of this website. Learning from all the mistakes of others makes your mind open to possibilites when a situation is encountered.

Improvise, adapt, overcome. Semper Fi.

08-23-2006 07:15 PM
iburke Goldbird go to edelbrocks web site and down load the tune procedure for your carb.. order a jet kit for 49.95 and tune away. the procedure is simple and only takes a screw driver and a stopwatch....or it can be done at the strip. A lot less than $250 for a dyno and a lot more fun. If you want to get real serious spend 100 bucksor so and install a wideband O2 sensor and fuel to air meter.... (stoich)
08-23-2006 06:53 PM
Bob147 A service person in todays shop must be able to deal with problems in hundreds of different cars and trucks. We, as auto hobbyists have only a few or one car to deal with. You can learn everything about that car and be more knowledgeable than anyone. With the Internet any problem you’ve had has happened to others. There’s just no reason to learn carbs as a business unless you try and make it a specialty service shop. The guy with an old stocker is not going to pay for 4 or so hours at $50 t0 $100 an hour to rebuild his carb when the car is worth $500. The real problem happens when a Technician with a big ego will not admit that he has little knowledge in a particular area.
08-23-2006 06:13 PM
67 Deuce 4 Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 steve
I take offense at that!!!! You obviously have not performed any driveability on late model cars, if you have you would not make such a blanket statement.

I would love to have the simplicity of yesteryear cars today.

Are you an ASE certified tech? If not why are you pointing fingers. I just happen to be one and I take much pride in my work and I would just love to see one of those "old guy under a backyard garage roof" diagnose a new car with a no code driveability problem.

As soon as someone known nothing or not much about something that someone else does, they call that person a RIP OFF.... Why????

I would love to say more about what you have said, But Jon would not like what I would say to you. YOU and people like you are the reason that auto repair and auto techs have such a bad name. You spread ignorance and hate for others.


Steve

As a auto technician I totally agree. I worked at the dealership for years and currently at an independent shop. I challenge ANYONE that just does hot rods and race cars as a hobby to take a shot at making a good living working on modern cars. Theres no comparison. You would most likely screw up 3 or 4 cars and get canned. Im not trying to step on toes here Im just stating a fact. I will admit there are some new guys and dummies out there working in shops and dealerships. Ive worked with a few. As far as ASE goes my own personal thoughts are is that being ASE certified means your able to study a book and pass a test and thats it. I think its a money racket. IMHO. Ed Cannon........ ASE Master tech.
08-23-2006 06:03 PM
topfuel
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbird
The “technicians” looked like they were straight out of high school and pronounced stoich as sto-eee-ch. Morons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbird
Where have all the carb guys gone? Finding people that are good at tuning and know carburetors from top to bottom are hard to come by. I searched all over before I finally went to these guys.
The situation you ran into is very common around here. One of my customers has a Cobra replica with a carbed 394 stroker in it. He took it to 3 different shops with chassis dynos that assured him they could tune his carb. Every time he got it back it was worse than when he took it in. He stopped in and asked if I knew how to tune carbs. I showed him the Biscayne(see my photo album) and took him a ride. He asked how I tuned if I didn't have a chassis dyno. When i said "by driving the car", he was suprised. He left the car and left my shop a happy customer when he picked it up. Part of the problem is, due to most car magazines and TV shows, people think that you have to have a chassis dyno to tune. The other part of the problem is a lot of the younger people have no knowledge of a carb and most times, no desire to learn.
08-23-2006 05:02 PM
1931 steve When you throw as much dung as xntrik did in post #5 , some is going to stick to some one, and that some one was me. I try very hard not to say offensive things on this board, but when xntrik stated what he did I could not keep quiet. Anybody that is so blatant as he was in calling an ASE certified technician a parts changer with very little diagnostic understanding, well that just shows his lack of understanding on what it takes to repair these cars.

Steve
08-23-2006 04:01 PM
1ownerT After reading post #5 I knew it wouldn't take long for the dung to hit the fan.
08-23-2006 03:23 PM
1931 steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
welcome to reality.

We have created a society of parts replacers. ASE techs are taught to read gauges and swap parts. Very little dianostic understanding is necessary. Ethics and honesty are long gone from most shops. Ancient techniques such as carburetors are dying with the old timers who have gone into seclusion. Think not? How many rodders on this site put a carb "right-out-of-box" on an engine, it doesn't run right, so it is the carb manufacturer's fault?

Finding ethical and knowledgeable technicians is a trick in itself. Look for an old guy under a backyard garage roof.

example. I have a friend with a 98 Chevy conversion van and two completely separate A/C systems, two compressors. Both AC quit at the same time.

The new car dealership that sold it and two other shops say that it will cost $ 2000+ to repair the AC systems, maybe more if they find more bad parts.

Question is....... Why did both AC systems quit at the same time as the DVD, radio, and TV?????

The techs cannot be THAT stupid, can they?
Can you spell RIP OFF?
I take offense at that!!!! You obviously have not performed any driveability on late model cars, if you have you would not make such a blanket statement.

I would love to have the simplicity of yesteryear cars today.

Are you an ASE certified tech? If not why are you pointing fingers. I just happen to be one and I take much pride in my work and I would just love to see one of those "old guy under a backyard garage roof" diagnose a new car with a no code driveability problem.

As soon as someone known nothing or not much about something that someone else does, they call that person a RIP OFF.... Why????

I would love to say more about what you have said, But Jon would not like what I would say to you. YOU and people like you are the reason that auto repair and auto techs have such a bad name. You spread ignorance and hate for others.


Steve
08-23-2006 02:43 PM
cool rockin daddy Not quite sure what the beef is. You obviously went to a dyno shop that monitors the dyno runs but expects you to do the tuning! You didn't break any speeding laws, you're not going to ruin your engine with 5,000 rpm "blasts", and you were able to get hands on experience and gain 40 horses! You could have went to the shop, dropped your car off, told them your expectations, and demanded dyno sheets as proof of what they did. That would have cost more money, I'll bet!
08-23-2006 01:19 PM
454C10 What kind of changes did you make to the carb at the dyno?

What kind of heads, valve size, and springs?

How much total ignition timing.

How much initial ignition timing.

What is the engine compression ratio?

241 rwhp at what rpm?

Tuning for peak power is much easier than tuning for good drive-ability and mpg.

That "RPM" cam may need a little more stall.
08-23-2006 12:20 PM
barnym17 Duh-fuse maybe, most likely electrical-not all techs are parts monkeys.
08-23-2006 12:17 PM
xntrik I want to mention that I have actually driven 600 miles one way to have a specific shop work on my car because I knew that they would do it right.
08-23-2006 12:13 PM
xntrik welcome to reality.

We have created a society of parts replacers. ASE techs are taught to read gauges and swap parts. Very little dianostic understanding is necessary. Ethics and honesty are long gone from most shops. Ancient techniques such as carburetors are dying with the old timers who have gone into seclusion. Think not? How many rodders on this site put a carb "right-out-of-box" on an engine, it doesn't run right, so it is the carb manufacturer's fault?

Finding ethical and knowledgeable technicians is a trick in itself. Look for an old guy under a backyard garage roof.

example. I have a friend with a 98 Chevy conversion van and two completely separate A/C systems, two compressors. Both AC quit at the same time.

The new car dealership that sold it and two other shops say that it will cost $ 2000+ to repair the AC systems, maybe more if they find more bad parts.

Question is....... Why did both AC systems quit at the same time as the DVD, radio, and TV?????

The techs cannot be THAT stupid, can they?
Can you spell RIP OFF?
08-23-2006 09:49 AM
nitro_baller4692 there is more to learn from a dyno then just hp.if under standing right you were on a chassis dyno,if i was you i would take the time and money and put it on an engine dyno before it ever went in my car.dyno's tell you alot more than people think and you can find problems before they become a major issue.
just my thought.
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