|02-17-2007 10:03 AM|
|oldred||NH, Darn good point!|
|02-17-2007 08:37 AM|
I just finished piping my garage with 3/4" galvanized a few months ago. If I did it again I would go with copper simply because of the easier installation. I used a manual threader and it was very time consuming.
|02-16-2007 09:01 PM|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but every compressor that I've seen so far has a pipe connecting the compression cylinder(s) to the tank to pump the air in.
Has anyone else noticed what that pipe is made out of?
On most I have seen it is........ copper.
|02-16-2007 08:47 PM|
Thanks oldred and Rambo. Looks good, Rambo! Well, I let this sit a week, nobody seems to have any real basis for not using copper (altough the thread wasn't labeled for that). Speak now or hold your peace! Only thing I can think of is strength if hit with something, mine will be high up.
Good to hear on the hydraulic pressure oldred, that seems to prove the tables right, since they give bursting pressure in the thousands of psi. Thanks again.
|02-10-2007 10:05 PM|
|02-10-2007 09:15 PM|
Bee type M should be just fine I have installed a bunch of "L" but this was in shops for companies with deep pockets. Copper does have advantages in cooling and the fact it stays so clean inside, it always was and still is my first choice.
Just a note about strength, I know of a home made align boring mill that has some short pieces of copper pipe, not sure if it is "M" or "L" just some left over pieces, that are sometimes subjected to nearly 2000 lbs of hydraulic pressure and he has not busted one yet. I don't think it would be too "dicey" for air line
|02-10-2007 08:25 PM|
Well, thanks for the replies here, I know intentions are always to help. I didn't expect to get into the airline material discussion. Good to have concientious folks point questionable reasoning. If it ever gets to the point somebody can sue because they did something they read on the internet, and it was bad advice, the lawyers shall inherit the earth.
I'm actually replacing the PVC lines I had in my garage, which I put in before I found this great forum. They're inside plywood walls, but as oldred pointed out, point is to cool and condense, they'll be even worse at that inside there.
I'm confused though why the words to describe copper lines are "dicey," "not the best," etc. I realize black iron and galvanized work fine, but why not copper, other than cost (which isn't much different with type M now)? I'm willing to listen to opinions. As oldred said, 3/4" type L copper (table here) is good to close to 600 psi at 100 deg F., type M (table here) over 400 psi at that temp. 95-5 solder (table here) good to over 600 psi too. Type M still gives me a safety factor of 2 over 175 psi required. In my small garage, seems ideal. I've heard some use type L copper, but that doesn't seem necessary either unless these tables are wrong.
|02-09-2007 11:04 PM|
Thank you for posting what you have in this section. I am knew to the forums and and still "setting up shop" (for 2 years now). I have my compressor (somewhat cheap Craftsman) set up with the regulator and filter / trap right off the compressor with a 50' hose.
Don't worry, you don't have to say it.... I'm looking at getting rid of that setup before using the compressor any further. I've had my impact gun spit water enough times and my blast cabinet clog up like crazy in the summer.
I will also drain down the tank and make sure everything is cleaned out before doing any work.
I've kind of grown attached to all my body parts and would like to keep all of them in working order until I no longer need any of them.
I will be using pipe to plumb a main feed around the garage to several outlets.
What I would like to ask you is the following:
1. Would it be better to run the main pipe around the top of the ceiling (8') and then put drop-downs' in, or run it around at working height slightly sloping down to one end on each wall? I was also thinking of running the main feeds up through the attic and then dropping down, but think the temp. difference in the seasons may affect the moisture problem more than the rubber hose?
2. What size and type pipe should I use? What do you use to seal all joints and connectors?
3. I've been looking at a setup from TP tools but it seems like I could put it together cheaper from Lowes or Home Depot. What do you think of this?...
4. Finally, can you recommend a good shop compressor for a serious hobby shop for $900 or less?
|02-09-2007 02:05 PM|
Echo I did not tell you to not use that junk I did suggest you get rid of it because I assumed you simply did not know better, a lot of folks don't. "I could not afford anything else" is a poor excuse when the cost of iron pipe is not that much more and is cheap insurance indeed but even if cost were an obstacle then simply using rubber air hose would be cheaper still, just as effective as PVC for cooling (which is very poor) and a hell of a lot safer, BTW that 2" section you mention could easily be lethal! People come here and ask questions because they want to know how to do something and anyone who replies has a responsibility to put safety FIRST above all else. If you have something to add to a discussion fine by all means speak up and if you disagree with someone then put in your opinion and tell everyone why you disagree but you should NEVER tell someone who may not know better to do something that may get them hurt or maybe even killed. I disagree sometimes, sometimes strongly depending on the situation, and I try to respect the other guys opinion if he thinks he is right even if we never agree but I will never have respect for anyone who would carelessly endanger someone else. As far as OHSA having a "thing" about public safety as you put it they certainly do and for a darn good reason! I have worked around and serviced the mining industry since 1970 and I have been unfortunate enough to witness several serious accidents including three fatalities and in each case MSHA rules had been ignored or at least not followed to the letter. You sir are an accident looking for a place to happen and for you to recklessly recommend a known hazard and then point at your guard-less belt as an act of defiance says volumes about your character, or lack of.
FWIW, At a mine in Southeast KY in 1979 I had a friend who all but lost most of his right hand because of a missing belt guard on an air compressor, I am not making that up it is the truth. You do things the way you see fit and the rest of us can only hope that you will cause no one else any harm.
|02-09-2007 10:42 AM|
Oldred ...I only put it out as a option, the final choice is up to the end user! As far as the "water problem" all you need is low point drain and/or a separator/filter elimainates that issue.
You may have unlimited funds, but most of my life I've had to deal with used or broken equipment I've found in the junk yard or flee markets, and I think that is the case for afew here. But there are options to everything and having to deal with them is apart of this hobby. You think my idea is bad, then don't do it! ...But Please don't try to dicate to me what I can or should do.
P.S. ...I don't have a belt guard on my air compressor, should I go shut it down and not fill up my flat tire?
|02-09-2007 10:22 AM|
PVC = bad news for air lines. I did a very temporary setup with PVC. Then it was going on longer then temporary so I took it down and put up copper (still not the best). Each joint where I had used PVC cement fractured as I was disassembling it. Not just broke, but shattered in several small and very sharp pieces. This was brand new Charlotte Pipe PVC, manufactured in 2006 and installed by me in July 2006. Learn my lesson - sure did. There are several other threads here in the last year or so as well decrying the use of PVC and defining what are the best piping systems - and by real experts. Don't - it is beyond inexcuseable and is irresponsible if you have prior knowledge and possible illegal. If your air system injures someone and you are sued, this thread is public can be used as evidence.
|02-09-2007 09:14 AM|
|oldred||Echo, If you are so aware of the known dangers then why in gods name would recommend it for someone else? The moisture problem alone is enough not to use it and before you come back with the "my air is dry" argument let me point out that I have replaced several PVC piping systems because of water problems which is usually the case. For someone to take a chance like that with their own safety is irresponsible but to suggest to someone to do it who may not be aware of the the hazards is just plain inexcusable!|
|02-09-2007 08:52 AM|
|11echo||OLDRED ...What you have stated is true! AND if I had a shop open to the public I would not have used PVC. But I did use PVC and that is why I put it up in the rafters, it is not subject to "hard object, blunt or sharp objects" and is located in an area where "IF" it did rupture the "shrapnel" would only upset my insulation and my wife's old curtains (no big lost there) All the exposed air system is sch.40 galv. steel pipe. Now I know that OSHA has a "thing" about public safety, and some of the people you meet need all the help they can get, but this is my shop, only I work in it and I take responsibility for that! If I mess up I'm the guy that has to pay the bill. And I'm not going to run out and try to sue somebody because I hurt myself on or with their equipment. Dangerous? ...Yes, but so is the table saw I use to cut wood with. You pay your money and you take your chances! ...My $0.02!|
|02-08-2007 05:35 PM|
|oldred||Echo, This subject about PVC has been discussed to death here. PVC is about the worst choice you can make for air pipe because in addition to the fact it is VERY dangerous (especially that 2" section ) it is by far the worst thing you could use for moisture control except for maybe rubber hose. It has been banned by both OSHA and IMSHA to transport compressed gas including air due to injuries that have occurred when that stuff ruptured and threw razor sharp shards of plastic, IT DOES HAPPEN! The pressure rating on PVC does not in any way make it safe because that rating changes drastically with age and relatively minor temperature changes and even if it is operating within the proper temp range a blow from a hard object, blunt or sharp, can cause it to rupture. If you have PVC for your set-up you would be well advised to scrap that junk before hurting your self or someone else. Some people will scoff at this and point to systems that have worked ok for years but the fact that some gotten away with it still does not make it safe because some have not! Make no mistake it is dangerous and it can hurt you|
|02-08-2007 03:49 PM|
|11echo||Left field suggestion ...Use schedule 40 PVC plastic pipe! I have an air system in my garage where I used a 2" sch.40 PVC main header in the rafters and ran 3/4" down to each air station, and then changed to 3/4" galv. pipe and threaded fitting on the walls. This is held in place with uni-strut. The PVC is cheap and easy to work with. It'll (sch.40) easily hold 175 psi air, and I used 2" main header to "help" as a reservoir. That was 2 yr.s ago, still no problems at this time, and I don't have to worry about rust in those sections of the system. My $0.02 anyway, Good Luck! ...Mark|
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