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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-21-2007 07:36 AM
roger1 Simple answer.

Epoxy primer is superior to etching primer no doubt about it.

Shoot 2 coats of epoxy over the bare metal. Finish it off with a coat or 2 of urethane primer. Then topcoat with a ss urethane.

Use a cheaper line of paint like PPG omni. Not long ago I paid $80 for a gallon of Omni ss urethane that I used on an old pickup. Not bad stuff for the price.

For what you are wanting to accomplish, you must topcoat this car.
03-21-2007 05:59 AM
Silverback What, did I scare everyone away with that response?

As I posted in another thread, I stopped by the local big bodyshop supply today and talked to them about it, explained the situation (race car/project car that will probably not see a real paint job for 2 or more years), and they actually gave me EXACTLY the same advice that they gave me so many years ago, ďUse an etching primer, over bare metal, over body work, once it bonds itself down it will seal it up and you donít have to worry about rust.Ē They even recommended the same brand of stuff as they did years ago (donít remember what it was but itís the stuff thatís sort of olive colored).

I told him that and got a bunch of very surprised looks. No mater what I didnít think that old school etching primer was a good idea over body work and mentioned epoxyÖ They didnít seem happy with that thought at all.

I finally asked about ďwell, what about just mixing up a minimum amount of whatever the cheapest top coat you stock is in a matching color and using that? What would that run?Ē ďI couldnít tell you without a paint color.Ē I was preparedÖ itís a 1987 GM 74 ďflame red metallicĒ and even had some paint chips stuck to some packing tape I my wallet since GM used that paint code for half a dozen other reds since then and they were all totally different and Iíve been having problems finding any touch up paint at all for it.

For the smallest amount (for the life of me I donít remember if it was a pint or a quart now) of acrylic enamel, reducer and hardener it was going to be $67. Now if I was doing a full, real paint job then fine, actually that would be a GREAT price to do the whole car, even 2x that would be OK (itís still single stage and enamel, if I was doing it for real Iíd probably be using BC/CC), but for just something to cover up/protect some body work and make it look presentable from 50í awayÖ thatís hard to swallow.

Especially since itís basically the same technology as the rustoleum that I can get for $7.xx/quart. I actually stopped at the hardware store on the way home and found that rustoleumís normal and pro enamel comes in a ďregal redĒ that the paint chip is a dead ringer for my paint chips (and Iím sure would blend well enough to look good 50í away) in gallons, quarts and half pints, oh and spray cans (would probably use one of my hvlp guns to spray it down)

Common guysÖ there has to be a better answer to this out there. Iím really trying to avoid perpetuating the ďcar painted with rustoleumĒ thing.
03-18-2007 03:45 PM
Silverback Please donít take this as not listening to perfectly good advice, but Iíve been burned by that 2x before. Once was a long time ago with etching primer where I got the response from a body shop supply and a guy that worked at a body shop ďuse this etching primer, once it bonds to the surface you can leave it just about anywhere and it will be fine.

The second time, slightly more recently was in the mid Ď90ís when I started a project like this while I was in college on my daily driver (I really have no issues with driving a primered carÖ bondoíed is a problem but not primered) while my parents were going through a divorce and in the process I lost a place to consistently work on my car. That time I was told epoxy is the way to go, it will protect things till you have time to finish it. Well, literally the next spring (maybe about 5 months, and we donít have harsh winters around here in the DC metro area) a good 2/3 of the hood was showing the beginnings of rust coming through it.

DP90 used to be the ďif you want to leave your car in primer but not have it fall apart, itís waterproofĒ answer, and I believe itís an epoxy primer that has been around at least a couple of decades now, but now youíre finally getting ďwell itís not really waterproof.Ē

To be blunt, this thing will see 2 (or with some bad luck 3) years of race car and occasional street use before it gets real paint. I donít have enough garage space to keep it locked up/covered up, but it will spend some time in the garage having a drivetrain swapped and roll cage installed (I see no reason why I would want the body perfect before I finish those anyway).

Unless the epoxy primers have _really_ gotten that much better in the last 10years, I donít think Iíd trust it to ďsand it down, fix any other dings/dents, seal it and shoot itÖĒ a couple of years from now. Iíd be worried that the epoxy would have broken down/absorbed enough water that, well ďlets take off all of it and redo all the body work that I already did.Ē

That brings me back to my thought process. I know that something like rustolium is and ďindustrialĒ paint and not necessarly compatible with automotive finishes, but as far as I can tell itís basically an acrylic enamel, which I believe I should be able to get away with spraying using my HVLP, and then a couple of years from now I should be able to give it a good sanding, seal it with a sealer or some reduced epoxy primer and then shoot the car.

The last time I talked to someone about my last adventure with this kind of thing and epoxy primer, he suggested that what I should have done is after I primed it I should have gone to the bodyshop supply and gotten some ďcrylĒ sealer tinted to something like the final color, shot that over the primer as a top coat and left it and it would have been fine. Best as I can figure out, Ďcrylí is just another acrylic enamel?

I guess what Iím getting at is that if youíre really convinced that one of the epoxy primers out there, Iím guessing applied as a sealer, would adiquitely protect the finished bodywork under these conditions, that Iíll go for it, hell, it saves me at least one, maybe more steps, but Iím sure that Iíll be stressing about it the whole timeÖ
03-18-2007 07:48 AM
roger1 Epoxy primer is your best choice. But ,it has no UV inhibitors so keep it out of the sun as much as possible. Drive it, but put a cover on it if it has to sit in the sun at all.
03-18-2007 07:20 AM
adtkart You can use epoxy primer. That can stay there when you get around to painting. You will need to sand and shoot more though.

03-18-2007 01:01 AM
Temporary topcoat

I just bought a new projectÖ Itís mostly straight but it has some exposed bondo on the rear quarters that just canít stay that way, though I donít expect the car to get a real paint job for a couple of years.

The current plan is to fix the quarters, roll the fender lips, prime and then cover with something so that the car can be driven/left outside without worrying about water soaking into the body work.

The question is what to use for the temporary top coat that will protect the body work, look OK, cheap and not interfere with the real paint job when that comes along. The car is sort of a burgundy, and even red oxide primer primer is a good enough match so it doesnít look bad, and between the dark color and the amount of black on the car already I could get away with a semi gloss black. I donít know if any red oxide primer is going to keep the water out, duplicolor does seem to sell a red oxide primer/sealer in a spray can, but Iím not sure I trust that.

I originally thought about using some spray can touch up paint, but quickly found that even though it was a common color in the 80ís, no one seems to sell it now. Other things that Iíve been considering are maybe some rustolium (they have a red thatís close, and otherwise, semi gloss black will work fine, and I know that it will protect it but I donít know what the consequeces will be when I get around to really painting it. As a last choice, Iíve considered having the local bodyshop supply mix up some matching paint (I donít know what the smallest amount is, maybe a pint or a quart?), it would probably look the best, and be the ďsafestĒ but also, by far the most expensive with any of the modern paints (I used to do this with lacquer which kept costs down, but I doubt that you can even get it anymore).

Anyone have any opinions? Any other ideas what to use?

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