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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-20-2007 08:01 PM
adtkart Let me point out a few things on body shop repairs.

1) Estimates, specially ones done by insurance adjusters, are notoriously inaccurate, and there are more often than not, supplements done. Although it used to be that insurance companies wanted accuracy, that has changed. Now they want the estimates written light, then supplements done for additional damages found. That way they reduce their costs.

2) Many shops will repair panels and parts that are written to be replaced. They will substitute the repair time for the part cost, making their bottom line look better, because they don't have to spend the money for the part. That is often not disclosed to the vehicle owner unless they show up while the vehicle is being repaired.

3) The body shop did the work for you, as the customer. Even if you were sent to that shop by the insurance company, you were the customer, not that company. Some companies in this area will inspect a vehicle, or have it done in a qualified shop, to determine if the repairs were done as described in the estimate submitted for payment. If there are discrepancies, they will often pay another shop to correct the repair, and bill the original shop.

I would request a copy of the final estimate for the repairs. That is the estimate that they actually paid on, including all supplements. I can assure you that I would have a detailed receipt from the shop for any repairs that they claimed they did.

Aaron
04-20-2007 07:14 PM
rebelbill1972
re: Paint does not match

Well we had our little meeting with the insurance adjuster today...

First off he agrees that the paint does not match but said the blending done on the fender is the closest that should be expected. He seems to believe that it not being made to match the undamaged door is ok and he will not authorize further paint repair...

Today I was given a copy of the insurance estimate. I looked it over and it is very detailed as far as what was seen BEFORE repairs were made. In light of this I called the body shop and asked for a copy of the actual work order. They told me there was no work order, the estimate IS the work order and receipt, and repairs were made strictly according to the estimate. This leads me to believe that there may be more damage that was not found during the estimate and maybe some that was not reported to the insurance company by the body shop.

Monday the Jeep is going to a local dealership to have the steering looked at. The steering is abnormally tight, almost like the tie rods or drag link were way over tightened, the steering wheel is at 11 o'clock going straight, it pulls hard right and at times will suddenly take off to the left.(Rack and pinion maybe?)

Anyhow I told the guy that I'm not going to just go away because he said no to fixing the paint and he should expect to hear from a lawyer in the very near future.

And to top it all off I am now working 7 12's on a night shift(I found out when I got here today) instead of 10's...So the only time I will get to see my wife and kids in the foreseeable future is going to be at 55 in opposite directions on US 17...Rant over thanks for listening

Bill
04-20-2007 06:41 PM
adtkart Since you are in Gloucester, you are not far from me. One problem with the insurance companies here is how they look at blend panels. There are a couple of companies that will not pay for blending on any panels that have any type of damage on them. That includes any door dings or any chips in the paint that they can find. Their reasoning is that the panel already needs painting, so they won't pay for it. That puts the shop/painter in the middle. They ae ultimately responsible with making you, the customer, happy with the job.

As far as what was actually done to the vehicle, you have a right to a copy of that repair order/estimate. It should show all parts and labor that went into the repair. That includes, if the part was replaced with aftermarket (A/M, Quality Replacement), used (LKQ, Recycled), or OEM. The insurance company, if they wrote the estimate, should have provided a copy of the original estimate that they were paying by. If the estimate was written by the shop as a "Direct Repair", the repairs should have been explained, in detail, before they were started.

As was pointed out by someone else, often there will be a slight color change with the addition of another coat of clear during the blend.

Aaron
04-20-2007 05:48 PM
AuggieStyle
paint doesnt match

fbird 88 said it... the car SHOULD be returned to pre-accident condition. I have always had this issue with the OTHER guys insurance company. I am a painter and went through this same ordeal when I had some kid stop his suburban in the middle of the intersection and I t-boned him. front clip was replaced on my truck the front clip did not match the rest of the truck. If I had painted something like this in my shop I would have used variance cards, let down cards, and blended the doors and recleared the entire cab. But that is just the type of work we do in a quality shop. After many phone calls to his insurance company I finally called MY insurance guy took my truck to him after all his company insures the truck. I also contacted my bank which has the loan on the truck.They threatened to sue. the other guys insurance company reopened the claim and repainted the truck. If people would not settle for mediocrity it would start to cost the insurance companies more to fix cars and I guarantee you things would change.
04-20-2007 02:26 AM
milo Another point of interest is did the insurance company steer you to or suggest the shop or is it one you picked ?

Some colors are really a challenge. Even just a spray of clear
(no color) will change them darker..
04-20-2007 01:18 AM
rebelbill1972
re: Paint does not match

Believe it or not after only about 3 calls from me and 3 from my wife I think the insurance company figured out that I was not going to just go away. Ever since the supervisors got involved they have been very co-operative...

As for the claim, it has not been settled yet. We will not sign off on anything until we are 100% satisfied and we have made that very clear to the body shop and the insurance company.

And now for the part you will just love...The shop in question(who I will not name because at this point I still think that would be unprofessional)is probably one of if not the most respected and most recommended in the Hampton Roads/Tidewater area. They have done work for us in the past with no problems...

Depending on what happens after the meeting today, and definitely before we sign a settlement release I will be taking it to have it inspected by another shop...I'll keep you posted and again thanks for the help!!!

Bill
04-19-2007 11:38 PM
MARTINSR In California you would have a complaint for the Bureau Of Automotive Repair for an improper repair order. EVERY item should be listed.

You know what cracks me up is when everyone blames the insurance company. The insurance company didn't repair this car, and insurance company did not paint this car. Yes, they are a pain in the ars. But the PAINTER is the one who didn't match the color.

I don't know the rules in your state. But here, you could "reopen" the claim being it wasn't repaired properly. And, if the color doesn't match, there is a good posibility that the repairs them selves were done improperly as well.

You REALLY need to have a shop who comes with some recommendations to look it over. You had some structual damage, the rad support was pushed over pretty good. Have the thing looked at by another shop. But DON'T TELL THEM WHERE IT WAS REPAIRED. Tell them it was out of state while you were on vaction or something. You may get another shop who knows the guy or something and that whole thing will mean nothing.

Brian
04-19-2007 08:03 PM
rebelbill1972
re: Paint does not match

Thanks to everyone for the info...

To answer a few questions:

Yes we have already discussed diminished value(the other guy backed out of his driveway and pushed her across two lanes).

Yes the new paint stopped at the limits of the repairs,from the drivers door back and around the back, the tailgate, and the roof were not painted.The biggest noticeable difference is between the left front fender and the drivers door. The fender is slightly darker and has a very glittery gold tone where the original paint does not. Inside the passenger rear door you can see where they taped it off and now there is a ridge at the point where old meets new and it does not match there either, so I don't think they can really get away with the faded paint argument.

Talking to my wife on the phone she said the paperwork she was given lists only parts cost, paint cost, material cost, and labor cost totaling $4700.00. There is no detailed breakdown and I know this is not right...

We have made arrangements to meet with the insurance man tomorrow. Surprisingly enough he suggested that we meet away from the body shop to discuss this and then pending the result of that conversation go back and try to settle this with them.
04-19-2007 01:37 PM
Bob C I understand both sides of this. The painter doesn't want to work for nothing and the ins.co. won't pay him to do it right. 25 years ago the body shop and the mechanical rate was the same and now the body shop rate is less than half. They keep taking away from the body shop and thats why I don't play their games. When I give an estimate I stand my ground and don't give into the ins. co. I would rather loose a job than do it their way.
ins. adjuster>>>>

Bob
04-19-2007 01:00 PM
jcclark I agree.
A lot of body shops get away with substandard work just because
most people accept it.
Most will wait to see if a customer accepts it before redoing it,
that way they end up redoing less.
Stand your ground and be firm and I bet you'll get it fixed right.
04-19-2007 09:51 AM
bourne51
stand your ground!!!!!!!!!

f-bird 88 is right stand your ground,but know they are going to re-paint 70-80% of the car before it will be liked by you.your getting only !/2 a paint job they are not doing the right thing and it shows, if the painter is worth his salt (painter wise),the painter would have blended the right paint and that should have been it,but it didnot happen so you have to tell them your going to the press and the all the other law people you must to get this right,so stand your ground.....................(bourne51)........
04-19-2007 09:09 AM
F-BIRD'88 This happens all the time. its a game between the insurance adjusters and shop estimate writers. The bodyman and painter are stuck in the middle.
The insurance companies many times won't pay for the panels to be blended. Under the flat rate estimating system they are supposed to and the painter gets paid for the work required.
But the insurance companies just refuse to pay for these operations.(They will pull it right off a estimate)
If the shop does not play along, they will get the run around from the insurance co. (won't get paid or pay delayed etc).
Future jobs "written off" etc etc.
So they dump it on the painter. He either has to do the prep and bend for free or "cut the panel". (Don't do the blend and hope you won't notice it or won't care)
The only one more powerfull than the insurance companies is YOU! The customer. Stand your ground. Contact your insurance company and insist on seeing the job repair order/invoice and crash estimate.
Look for the paint time and see if the estimate and or job order lists for blend time. Wether it does or not insist that it should. You did not, do not /and will not agree to a two tone paint job. The insurance co will eventually have no choice but to have the car repainted. Wether that means a complete paint job is not your problem. Stand your ground.
If the collision repair shops had more backbone this would not happen. Take notice next time you're out for a drive at how many cars are two toned cause the "panel was cut".
This is one reason why the insurance companies own all the tall buildings. (They control something like 90% of all wealth) They can afford to fix your car properly.

Keep your cool, but stand your ground. Let them both (Ins Co and repair shop) know you will not let it go.

If nessessary get a lawyer to help you.
Can you post a picture that shows the panel mismatch?
I was a automotive painter for many many years. Some days its very challenging to say the least. Some times you jsut have to bite the bullet and paint the whole side.
Some times you have to create your own alternate paint formula by creating test spray out cards and work it till you get a good match. The light coloured metallics with pearl are especially challanging. But it can be done. Yes it takes extra time.
The paint companies that supply to that shop, will help.
They release new alternate formulas all the time.
I used to have quite a library of custom match paint formulas I made up my self over the years for Chryslers ....
04-19-2007 08:19 AM
MARTINSR So, it looks like they replaced the hood, but there was no (or little) damage on the left front fender? They likely blended the color from the hood onto the left front fender and did a poor job so the blend went to far, meeting the door. How is the match on the passenger side? There, it looks like the fender was replaced and the front passenger door had no damage (or very little at the leading edge) and the color would have been blended back on the door. At the rear of the door there would be no paint, only clear over the whole thing to protect it. This is the norm, and simply called a "Blend panel" (if there was no damage on it). But even if there was a little damage on the front of the door, the color would have been applied just there, then blended back.

What does the color look like at the passenger door to rear door (or quarter panel if this is a two door)?

Brian
04-19-2007 06:40 AM
jcclark I'd rather paint the entire side of a car than have a customer of mine
out there with a door or fender a different color.
I don't need that type of advertisement.
04-19-2007 06:23 AM
302 Z28 I agree with the consensus, the shop is blowing smoke up your %$##^&*%. A competent painter should be able to make a decent match. Stand your ground and do not accept a sub standard repair, it's your right.

Vince
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