|10-22-2010 04:57 PM|
|Onefunponcho||My father ran a small booster in his 34 ford and it turned out to be inadequate. I would run as big as will fit.|
|01-09-2009 11:21 AM|
s10 to 49 olds
If you have room, go for the 9 inch.
Check out the wiki on the cavalier rack install. One issue is the length of the steering arms. To get them in sync with the rack travel I used Chevelle front steer arms and flipped sides to make them rear steer (slight grinding to fit the spindle but I may have had to ream them to fit). If you use the stock chevy arms they are too long and will reduce your turning radius.
|01-08-2009 02:51 PM|
|rhalko1969||As long as I am tearing the whole front end apart I'm planning to spend $40 for a used Cavalier R&P and get rid of all the OLD steering components. As for the kit from CPP I have a choice of 7,8 or 9" booster.|
|01-08-2009 09:34 AM|
s10 to 49 Olds
Yup, the kit was cheaper than piecemeal, and it all worked together.
From memory ( here we go again) The ball joints and spindles were compatible. As noted, I did have to shave the outer A frame a bit.
You may have an issue with the steering arms. I ended up with Chevelle arms to match the throw on my R&P, so I can't remember if the original arms fit the chevy spindles.
If not (bolt pattern) you will need chevy arms. You mentioned power steering. Good time to review the steering geometry. Is the pitman arm the same length as the original? Are you using the original tie rods? If all the steering is original, you will need the steering arms to be the same length (pivot length, not overall) as the original and at the same height and ackerman. Relatively minor job to bend them to match.
Don't panic, we can deal with that when you get there, just giving you a heads up.
reminder - the 7 inch booster is not ideal. Go larger if you can, or dual diaphram.
|01-08-2009 07:20 AM|
After totaling everything together last night and comparing the prices it is $160 more if I use the Drop Spindle brake kit from CPP and I get a NEW Master cylinder,Booster and hardware. So I'm going to use there Kit.
Oldguy829, When you used CPP's Chevy Dropped Spindle did the Ball Joints from the '58 Arms fit in the spindle holes without any modification? If not what did you have to do?
|01-07-2009 02:03 PM|
|rhalko1969||Thank you very much, you answered both questions. The second photo was the one I really didn't understand. Once I get all the parts rounded up and the temp here in Wisconsin gets above freezing I will start putting it all together and let you all know how it turns out.|
|01-07-2009 12:59 PM|
s10 to 49 Olds
The first picture is correct. 8 to 10 degrees. If you go 10, check for binding in the upper ball joint to spindle area.
Second picture. That is not an optical allusion. the mount is not parralel to the frame, neither is the lower. Exactly how much angle will be a funtion of how much positive caster you build into the static setup. 3 degrees is a great place to start.
Having a gauge is a big help. Not sure I understood your camber specs. I mocked mine up at 0 camber on both sides. Things have a tendency to change with the full weight of the vehicle out on the tires and tire size can change it. Starting at 0 is safe.
|01-07-2009 12:35 PM|
|rhalko1969||Also I forgot to tell you that I have access to a Camber/Caster Wheel Alignment gauge so I hope this will make my life a little easier? I was going to go with 3 deg + Caster at Static Set-up because my coupe already has power steering on it. Is that OK or to much? As for the Camber is .5-1 deg + about right?|
|01-07-2009 12:14 PM|
39 olds frame
I have never done this before so your help is WELCOME and THANK YOU!
Before I start any thing I'm going to compare the 58 Pont lower arm measurements I got from earier in the post and compare them to the 39's lower arms. Then If that is a go I will take the Coil Spring out of all 4 corners and level it front to back and side to side at the ride height I'm looking for.
So far I have decided to go with '58 Pont Arms, '63 Pont Spindles, Scarebird Adaptor plate and '77 Pont Rotor and Calipers. This will be cheaper than the $699 CPP wants for there Complete Drop Spindle Brake kit for '67-70 Chevy.
I attached a couple photos that I would like both of you to look at just for clarification. Am I understanding both of these right?
|01-07-2009 09:53 AM|
s10 to 49 Olds
One more thing ( It's a ***** when the old memory won't pull up the trivia like it used to). I can't remember if we confirmed the application for the 39 Olds.
If the info isn't in the WIKI, let me know. Size of the lower A frame, symetrical design, and mounting holes width on the cross member should be all you need to check.
|01-07-2009 09:45 AM|
S10 to 49 Olds
Glad you decided not to cut the frame. You are going to be happy with this setup. I can't get the Wiki's to open today, so I'll have to go from memory.
As Chieftan stated, the upper control arm is mounted at an angle (from level) for anti dive. I used 8 degrees (about 1/2 inch as I recall). If you are talking about the upper A not being 90 degrees off the frame, yes, it is angled back to create the positive caster.
For spindles, the 58 Pontiac ones work great. I still have a set, as I went with the drop spindles. Drums for the 58 were still available last year from O'Reilleys, or they can be converted to discs.
Note; the lower ball joint mount on the 58 Pontiac A frame is very wide. Other than the stock ones, and the custom setup from CPP, I didn't find any other spindles that would work.
I stacked 1/2 inch of shims in my setup at the static position. Might be a little much, but I had the engine in and measuring to set up both side exactly the same was tough, so I wanted extra adjustment room. Also the extra room allowed me to try several different caster settings. For some reason the car tracks better at 2 - 2 1/4 than it did at 3 +, which surprised me.
Chieftan, did you get yours on the road yet?
I haven't started the Stude. Decided I needed a hauler first, so I'm working on a 54 pick up, with a 500 caddy in it. drop me a line.
|01-07-2009 08:03 AM|
The mount angled is for anti-dive. I helped oldguy829 with some of his setup and thats were I set up my 55 and oldguy829'sset up his Pontiac. IIRC we went with an angle about 10 to 15*. The front needs to be higher on both sides. I got that angle measurment from a camero subframe I had here for awile. When I set mine up I started with 2 1/8" shims on each bolt , 3 would probably work also. Just remember when you set this up the coil spring should be out , frame level f&r and side to side and lower control arm level to the ground.
If your keeping manual steering 0 degrees caster is going to be enough, power steering you can go 2-3 degrees. Higher caster handles better, but also increases steering effort, the power steering makes up for that and can be set quite abit higher. The manual can be set higher as well.
|01-06-2009 01:10 PM|
39 Olds Frame Conversion
Hello all, I'm new to this forum and going to upgrade the front suspension and brakes on my 39 olds coupe this spring. I have read the wiki 37-57 BOP suspension upgrade 5 times and have decided that is the route I'm going to take . I was going to put a 72 camaro sub-frame on but I REALLY didn't want to cut the frame and cut all the inner fender sheet metal to fit the new sub-frame so I nixed that idea. I have tracked down a set of 58 Pont upper and lower arms and I'm now trying to decide on a spindle to use so that I don't go to far in the hole cash wise . I also have a question for oldguy829. In the WIKI there is a close-up photo from above showing the Upper mount on the frame. In relation to the cross member the upper mount seems to be rotated clockwise. Why is that? To achieve proper Caster at static ? Also, did you use any shims when you set-up the mounts in there static position? GREAT WORK on the WIKI
|02-24-2008 05:29 PM|
re: S10 to '49 Olds?
On the drop spindle, it is hard to find. Keep going down the page and there is a section on just spindles. That's where I found it. Had to call and confirm that that was the spindle in the 6570SWBKD kit.
On a do over, I would have gotten the double diaphragm or moved some stuff to get a bigger booster in there. The 7 inch single diaphragm is marginal. I'm used to it now, and no big deal, car stops fine, but it doesn't feel like full power brakes.
Grafting to the lowers make sense, cause the 58 lowers are hard to find and expensive. Lots of uppers will work. Personally, I think it is less work than subframing it, and you can't really go far wrong. Worst case, you get the upper mount in the wrong place and have to cut it off and remount it.
You may want to create your own lower ball joint mount. We used the ford courier ball joints cause of the funny crows foot design, and my buddy is basically a ford guy. There may be something else that works better.
The R&P conversion was a much bigger deal, so an old fashioned power box makes sense. All my steering linkage was solid, the R&P was strictly because I didn't have room to get a box in there.
The Stude is still a mystery. I know nothing about them, just liked the body.
You know swirling around in the back of my head is the next "Frankenstein" upgrade.
Bounce this around.... Original stude lowers, but I find some lowers with ball joints that are a similar shape and width. Hack off the outside 6 inches of the stude, and inner 6 inches of the later model. Stack and weld them together with the new ones on top.
It converts the the lowers to ball joints, but effectively does what a drop spindle does, lowers the frame about 2 inches compared to the hub mount height. Then I could go drop spindles if needed and end up 4 inches low, with full suspension. Just a daydream at this point, cause I can't get the Stude till the end of March, when Nebraska thaws out, to see if a modified version of our upgrade would work. But you can bet it's the first thing I'll look at.
Good luck on your 49, keep us posted.
|02-23-2008 12:22 AM|
I want to see what you do to that '53! I grew up with one next door. For years, I thought it was a sports car from the '60s because of its shape. (The well-to-do old gentleman who owned it could always find a job around his place for a kid needing spending money).
A question for you regarding your wiki article on the BOP suspension: Is the disc brake kit you mention as an option the 6570SWBKD kit? I don't see anything in that catalog entry about the specific drop spindle (CP30101) you reference, but it otherwise seems to match your description.
I may take a similar route as your friend and just graft ball joint mounts on the original '49 Olds lower control arms. Mine are not in bad shape.
It may be nuts and more work, but I like the idea of adapting rather than cutting the frame off at the firewall.
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