Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic -- Hot Rod Forum

Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine> Need Advice on intake setup
User Name
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: Need Advice on intake setup Reply to Thread
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Please select your insurance company (Optional)


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
07-10-2007 06:25 PM
techinspector1 Posted by decathlete:
"Until then, if you have any ideas as to measuring the lift/duration of the cam ( yeah, i know, good luck) let me know."

It's not really that difficult to measure with the motor assembled, assuming there is enough flat shoulder on the spring retainer to accomodate the plunger of a dial indicator. It is a labor intensive project though.

If you don't have a dial indicator with magnetic base, step up and buy one. It's an inexpensive addition to your tool collection and everyone should own one. Here's an adequate example with 0-1.000" travel. Don't buy one with less than 1" of travel, it will limit you on your projects.....

The other things you will need are a good degree wheel and a piston stop. I've used a Moroso 11" wheel for years and have found it adequate.....
Here's an inexpensive stop that will work......

Also, measure the outside diameter of the harmonic damper ring and buy the appropriate degree tape....

A pointer for the wheel can be made from a piece of clothes hanger wire with a pigtail formed in one end using a needlenose plier in order to mount it on a water pump bolt and the other end sharpened to a point with a file or grinder.

If the motor is in the car, remove the fan, shroud, lower crank pulley and all belts. I also drain the radiator and block of coolant and remove the water pump to make things easier to get to. Use solvent and hot soapy water to clean the harmonic damper so the timing tape will stick well to it. Dry thoroughly. Mount the degree wheel to the crank and the pointer to any close bolt and bend the wire so the end of it is pointing at the edge of the wheel, close to the numbers on the wheel. Remove all spark plugs to make the motor easier to turn over by hand. Remove the inner threaded rod from the piston stop and screw the outer housing only into the #1 spark plug hole (driver's side, closest to radiator) and snug it up. Remove driver's side valve cover.

With a socket and long cheater bar on the damper retaining bolt, rotate the crank clockwise while your buddy holds his thumb over the hole in the piston stop housing. As you rotate the crank, he'll begin feeling air pressure coming out the hole. This tells you that the piston is coming up on the compresssion stroke. Normally, you can watch the TDC notch indicator on the damper ring as it comes closer to the timing tab on the timing cover to see when the piston is at top dead center, but if the ring has slipped very much on the elastomeric material, the mark could be way off. Rotate the crank so that the notch on the damper ring is about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches to the right of the timing tab on the front cover. Loosen the damper retaining bolt and position the degree wheel at 20 degrees ATDC (wire pointer to the left of TDC on the degree wheel). The motor will try to rotate backward as you loosen the damper retaining bolt, so I usually have my buddy crawl under the car, remove the inspection cover and hold a long flat-blade screwdriver into the ring gear teeth and wedge it against the bellhousing while I loosen and tighten the bolt.

Insert the threaded probe into the piston stop housing until the probe meets resistance against the piston crown. Go easy here, just screwing it in by hand until it meets the piston. Rotate the crank nearly one full turn clockwise until the piston comes up against the piston stop again. I'll say this again, GO EASY. If the wire pointer stops at 20 degrees before top dead center on the degree wheel, then the TDC mark on the degree wheel indicates true top dead center when aligned with the wire pointer. If not (yeah, right, what are the chances you nailed it the first time), move the degree wheel radially half the distance of the error. For instance, if the wire lines up at the 30 degree mark BTDC, then you want to rotate the degree wheel COUNTERCLOCKWISE 5 degrees and try it again. If the wire pointer shows, for instance, 10 degrees BTDC, then rotate the degree wheel CLOCKWISE 5 degrees. It's less work at this point if you simply rotate the crank counterclockwise and come up against the piston stop. You can do it if the bolt remains tight in the crank. Bring the piston up against the stop again and note the number of degrees ATDC where the wire pointer is on the degree wheel. Rotate the crank clockwise up against the stop again BTDC and note where the pointer is on the degree wheel. If your patience holds up, you'll eventually get to the point where you have the same number of degrees BTDC and ATDC. When you've done that, remove the piston stop and rotate the crank so that the wire pointer lines up on TDC on the degree wheel and you're at absolute TDC.

Affix the timing tape to the harmonic damper ring with TDC on the tape aligning with the tip of the timing pointer on the timing cover. Now, you'll be able to time the motor later with a timing light and know you are correct.

Mount the dial indicator magnetic base onto the head. Rotate the crank until the exhaust valve is visually fully open (spring compressed). Mount the dial indicator stem on the spring retainer next to the rocker arm tip. Compress the stem into the indicator tool by about 0.100" to pre-load it. Sight with your eye from the side and front of the motor to assure that you have the indicator stem parallel with the exhaust valve.

Remove the piston stop inner plunger from the housing, leaving the housing in place in the spark plug hole. Rotate the crank clockwise with your buddy again holding his thumb over the piston stop housing hole to determine that you are coming up on TDC compression stroke. Zero the dial on your indicator. Rotate past TDC until the exhaust valve just begins to open by watching the dial indicator. This should be somewhere between 50 and 90 degrees BBDC on the power stroke. From the exact point of the valve beginning to move, rotate the crank until the dial indicator shows the valve open 0.075". With a 1.5 rocker, this will be 0.050" tappet lift. Note the reading of the wire pointer on the degree wheel and write it down as "exhaust opens ____ degrees BBDC @ 0.050" tappet lift". Continue rotating the crank until the dial indicator shows max lift. Count the number of degrees from this point to TDC on the degree wheel. Write this down as "exhaust max lift ____ degrees before TDC". Continue rotating the crank clockwise until the dial indicator shows the exhaust valve full closed (spring relaxed). Rotate the crank COUNTERCLOCKWISE until you have opened the valve 0.075". Write this down as "exhaust closes _____ degrees ATDC @ 0.050" tappet lift".

If the cam is a mild grind, the valve may close (measured at 0.050" tappet lift) BEFORE TDC. If so, write it that way. "exhaust closes _____ BTDC @ 0.050" tappet lift"

Now, you have all the information for the cam timing for the exhaust lobe. If the valve closed ATDC @ 0.050", add together the number of degrees from opening to BDC, then add the 180 degrees it was open from BDC to TDC, then add the number of degrees from TDC to close. This will give you the exhaust duration @ 0.050" tappet lift. If it closed BTDC, add the number of degrees from open to BDC to the number of degrees from BDC to close.

Now, move the magnetic base and indicator to the #1 intake valve right next door and do it again to find the intake valve timing.

Having the exhaust max lift point BTDC and the intake max lift
point ATDC will allow you to find the lobe separation angle of the cam. Simply add the two figures together and divide by two.

To determine the 0.050" tappet lift point with 1.6 rockers, open the valve 0.080" from where it just cracks open. To determine it with 1.7 rockers, open the valve 0.085". For 1.72 rockers, 0.086". For 1.75 rockers, .0875".

It has easily been 10 years since I did this, so if I messed anything up, please respond before I post this to Crankshaft Coalition. Thanks for your patience in reading this.
07-10-2007 10:30 AM

I screwed that up, sorry. When i bought the car, and he was going to remove the blower setup (which he had a lot of money into), he was also going to swap out the heads (which he also had a lot of money into) to a set of reworked 305 heads for increased compression, and use thinner gaskets. He was a good mechanic and knowledgable, so I'm sure there were also other tricks he used to make it driveable and reliable going to a carb setup without changing the internals. Basically, I came to pick up the car about a month after he agreed to sell it to me and the changes were already done. He told me what they all were, but i was too excited to pay much attention and really only remember the heads and the gaskets. What I'll probably do is pull the heads and measure bore and stroke so I know exactly what I have to work with before i make a decision. Downfall is I dont know what the specs on the cam are. It's not extreme at all, probably somewhere around 220 @ .050", but thats just based on the fact that it has the same idle that my buddys truck with that cam it has. Thanks for the input, if I ever figure it out I'll let you know. Until then, if you have any ideas as to measuring the lift/duration of the cam ( yeah, i know, good luck) let me know.
07-09-2007 07:47 PM
One Named Fishin' Im with him. You need to know your compression ratio. After cubic inches, compression is the single most power making factor. In a super/turbocharged engine, the compression is forced, so for idle characteristics and longevity, supercharged engines are built with lower compression than naturally aspirated ones. Turbos dont produce the boost at lower rpms and are also different.

Typically, the fuel injection set up is great up to a certain point. I have never done one but, you can see how well modern engines operate with them. Choosing an intake for a 4bbl should be based on the rpm that the engine is going to make its maximum power. This usually relates to the same range as the cam. In other words, match your cam and intake. Proper combinations are the key.
07-09-2007 04:37 PM
DoubleVision This has me somewhat confused, if the engine was already set up for a supercharger, and you want to use it natraully asperated it`s going to be a slug due to lack of compression, in most cases blower engines have a blower cam and around 7 to 8:1 compression, remove the blower and replace it with a 4 barrel intake and make no other changes, instant slug.
07-09-2007 12:33 AM
Need Advice on intake setup

I have a mildly built 350, inititally built for turbo/blower, but now just 4 barrel intake (couldnt convinve the guy who sold it to me to throw in the supercharger setup.) Want to add a little more power and was wndering which route i should go. I'm looking at either a B&M 144 or an aftermarket Edelbrock Fuel Injection Unit. Daily driver on occasion and a definite road tripper. First, which method of air/fuel delivery? Second, what size carb with that supercharger? Third, How much of a pain is the wiring for the Injection unit? I think that covers it. I can get both for around $2k so costwise, they are both equivalent, except I heard with the fuel injection, I may need those "extra" parts that you dont know about until installation time. Any help would be appreciated, experience would be even better. Thanks.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.