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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-23-2007 08:38 PM
SuthnCustoms Thank you VERY much for the concern..TRUELY appreciated .

Just to clarify..any of the tanks i would use are designed to hold MUCH more than 120-175 PSI,the 2 availabilities i have is from nuclear power plants and Paper Plants,the tanks from the nuke plants are used as Residual Heat Reducers right before the hot water/pressure is exposed to air in the turbines,these tanks take more PSI abuse than any compressor out there ever would.
The other i am considering is a resevour(spell check) for steam under pressure used to run the paper machines.
Im hoping to get the one from the nuke plant because anything that comes in the gate to a nuke plant is traced from the day the material was mined,to the steel mill and to the plant for quality insurance,cant get any better material.
This is why government and nuclear plants pay so much for everything,the suppliers have to pay for the tracable stamp on materials and pay an outragious insurance premium to cover any faults or damages in cause of the product,just an example..if a tank they fabricated and supplied happen to fail during a runnin period of the reactor,they have to be liable for any damages it caused..plus 1.2 million bucks a day loss that the plants produce..( i need to get into THAT type of insurance biz).
So long story short,yes anything i use will be MORE than fit for the job and overly safe..thanks Ireland........John

PS..im glad you clarified that in here because alot of people MAY think just using any steel tank is ok to use..which is FAR from the truth.
12-23-2007 06:42 PM
Irelands child
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuthnCustoms
.............It would be used in a shop outside in its own weather proof shelter,no where near the home.
John
John,
Obviously you can do what you want - but please reconsider NOT using an uncertified tank. They don't just go bang. his is one heck of an explosion - think big. Way back in the '60s, Richard Petty had a cousin killed at a race when a little 2-3 Hp version blew - and it did a lot of collateral damage. Side wall thickness doesen't have much to do with the tank pressure capacity as there are many grades of steel and stainless - and if it is used in the wrong application......or has an incorrect weld spec for major pressure, i.e. 150 and up, it will not work. Think safe - if not for you, then anyone nearby.

Dave
12-23-2007 07:38 AM
SuthnCustoms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
Good idea - just make sure that the tank is rated and stamped as a pressure vessel meeting National Board/ASME standards. If these things blow, they tend to do a lot of damage to property and equipment - including the human body

Dave

I work on alot of vessels(tanks) in my line of work,repairing,installing,modifications..etc. at paper plants,auto plants,power plants and etc.You would be surprised at how many brand new tanks are scrapped because the fabricator built or designed them wrong and don't fit or is the wrong type of vessel built,alot of times they just send the right one out to the site immediatly so they can get things running again ASAP and the customer keeps or scraps the wrong one because of the cost of shipping it back over rides the cost of the tank and rendered useless to them anyhow because it has already been modified for a specific purpose and could never modify it properly for another purpose and still stand behind it as being brand new.
Any of the stainless tanks i would be able to get my hands on would be a minimum of 1/8th of an inch thick and up to 3/8's of an inch thick.
Nothing like the paper thin tanks of today's compressor tanks made of cheap mild steel,
It would be used in a shop outside in its own weather proof shelter,no where near the home.
John
12-21-2007 02:08 PM
DanTwoLakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dugg
Look at the motor.

If it's an Emerson Electric Motor (assembled in mexico) and the data Plate says HP, SPL, then its's the same (we'd like you to believe it's) 5HP motor used by all the cheap-crap compressor assemblers.

Compare the size of this motor to the size of a real 5 HP electric motor from Grainger and tell me you think the skimpy little motor on the compressor is actually 5 HP. In fluid power there's a simple formula that is PSI X GPM divided by 1500 that is the general rule for horse power requirements.

When the Big Slox (Yes Paris, I intended it to be a slur of big box and sluts) stores advertise 7.5 peak horse power, it's when no work is being done. If you want a compressor that's rated for a, no-work-being-done situation, why would you need a compressor?
You are right that the quality of the motor used on the compressor is important.
The peak HP of the motor is the least of your considerations. That is a meaningless figure based on the motor being under absolutely no load. A better figure to look at is the service factor or SF. If it's 1.15, it means it can operate at 115% of horsepower rating. An electric motor, whether AC or DC, produces 3 ft lbs of torque per horsepower at 1750 RPMs. If the motor is running at 3500 RPMs, it is producing half that, or 1.5 ft lbs of torque per horsepower. All you need that motor to do is turn the compressor. Naturally, the more actual horsepower the motor produces will make it work less while it's turning the compressor, but if the motor is sized correctly for the load, turning the compressor is no problem for the motor. The motor should not burn up unless it is being overloaded because the compressor has locked up.
12-21-2007 09:48 AM
Dugg Ireland's Child is bang on.

Let me throw this out to ponder.

If you were to use a non-certified tank as a pressure vessel and it exploded, the damage may not be covered by your home owner's insurance. The same may be true if you remove or never installed a GFI breaker (where required by code) from a circuit and a fire occurred.

The chances of having a claim denied increases exponentially with an insurance policy covering a business.

When you have an insurance claim for a car accident, the insurance company seeks to assign blame to minimize their outlay. However, they usually wind up paying even if you're at fault. If you had non-DOT rated tires on your rod and had an accident, the insurance company could deny your claim. Though, it probably doesn't happen or at least, often.

Aviation insurance is different. If you use a non-certified part or a part that can't be properly traced for history, you have no insurance! It's not a matter of threatening to sue the insurance company. You flatly have no insurance coverage. Your claim will be rejected and you have no recourse.

If not in place now, this position will become a standard for claim denial for other types of insurance. The insurance company will look for any reason to deny your claim and finding a building code violation is what their looking for.
12-19-2007 11:18 AM
Irelands child
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuthnCustoms
I can get my hands on a few stainless tanks on a few jobs i work alot,think i may have to go buy a 2 stage setup and give the stainless tank a whirl n see what happens.

I take what your saying is to keep the pump and motor seperated from the tank on a frame and maybe run hardlines from the pump to the tank with filters in between?..am i right?..John
Good idea - just make sure that the tank is rated and stamped as a pressure vessel meeting National Board/ASME standards. If these things blow, they tend to do a lot of damage to property and equipment - including the human body

Dave
12-19-2007 09:42 AM
SuthnCustoms
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!





Unless the pump/motor is mounted remotely a good distance from the tank (not a bad idea at all) it is impossible to prevent water from condensing inside the tank and it needs to be drained daily to prevent water build up. A properly designed air line system is the solution (it works! ) to the water in the lines problem and this has been covered many times here.
I can get my hands on a few stainless tanks on a few jobs i work alot,think i may have to go buy a 2 stage setup and give the stainless tank a whirl n see what happens.

I take what your saying is to keep the pump and motor seperated from the tank on a frame and maybe run hardlines from the pump to the tank with filters in between?..am i right?..John
12-18-2007 12:15 PM
Kevin45 I'm at work right now, but do a search for "air compressor class action lawsuit" Then read thru some of that. You'll be surprised at who manufacturs what. There are only about three manufacturers for the "big box store" compressors but there is a multitude of different names. And when it boils down to it, what the lawsuit is about is what the companies advertise what you are getting vs. what you actually get. The CLA is older and over with, but the reading gives you an idea as to what type of compressor to get. Bottom line. Almost all are mainly made in China
12-18-2007 08:23 AM
Kampr I bought the Kobalt 2 stage from Lowes about three years ago and it's still running fine. There was one period that I did use it a lot but most of the time it doesn't run very often. I would rather have had one of the top notch compressors but couldn't justify the extra money no more than I use one.

Danny
12-18-2007 08:20 AM
Irelands child I still get my construction grade wood at Lowe's but any fancy stuff comes from a local lumber yard - and has the big prices to go with the quality. Even they are starting to get some crap veneers so you have to look. There is so little that I'll buy at the big box stores that I still have almost $60 worth of gift cards left from last Xmas even after I just spent a bunch the other day just to start using them up - I know there will be more coming. Black & Decker, while never (in the last 20 years, anyhow) have never been a great tool, but the junk Lowe's is now selling says Hecho en Chine - a bit deceptive.

My compressor is actually an I-R tho it says Charge Aire from Lowe's. It was a special order after the previous one blew up - 13 cfm @ 40/10.5@90. So far, 6 years, it still works fine. If it lasts half as long as my 1972 1Hp Craftsman, I'll be happy. The old clunker has a 1Hp motor that is physically bigger then the 5Hp (6.5 peak??) on the new and will probably run on something long after the compressor dies as long as it can be plugged in somewhere. Someday, I'll get a 'real' compressor

Dave
12-18-2007 06:11 AM
jcclark
Quote:
Originally Posted by busterwivell
I try and avoid the big box stores anymore for things other that PVC or plywood. !
Funny you mention that.
I have a wood shop and use oak and birch veneer plywood that I
use to buy at the big box stores, not anymore!
They all are getting Chineese ply now and the top veneer is so thin
that you can't sand it without going through.
I guess that leaves only PVC to buy there now-LOL
12-18-2007 05:28 AM
oldred
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuthnCustoms
why dont they make stainless steel tanks?..seems to me that would be the caddilac of tanks since no worries of them rusting out?.
John
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!





Unless the pump/motor is mounted remotely a good distance from the tank (not a bad idea at all) it is impossible to prevent water from condensing inside the tank and it needs to be drained daily to prevent water build up. A properly designed air line system is the solution (it works! ) to the water in the lines problem and this has been covered many times here.
12-18-2007 03:47 AM
Brian_B I have a 60 gallon (upright) black max 220V air compressor that I have had for many years now. So for no issues with it. As I understand it the Black Max line was made by sanborn.

It is ok, but I wish it were 2 stage. I do not know the HP or CFM ratings on it. I need to look again.





They sold out to coleman and are no longer made.
12-18-2007 02:22 AM
SuthnCustoms Ive had a Porter-Cable 60 gallon for 6 years I bought at Lowes and put it though hell with no problems,it has painted several cars,trucks,trailers and tractors with HVLP's,ran all types of air tools, etc.
I also put synthetic oil in mine,on top of that when i run it in the south east Georgia "Oven Summers" I put a cheap box fan blowing directly on the motor and compressor to help cool it down a bit.
I'm going to be buying another one soon,and this time I'm gonna pay the money for one to handle more CFM because mine does "OK" painting with HVLP's but cuts it close spraying each coat,if i remember right its only 11 CFM @ 90PSI.
As far as trying to keep humidity out of the tank itself that is real hard to do because of the heat generated from the air pressure inside it,I have a heavy duty industrial type BIG water sperator a guy gave me at a Paper Plant I work alot that is what they use on their Plant Air lines for some of the equipment thats sensitive to moisture,I'm gonna hard line it in between my compressor pump and tank to see if it helps any but im thinking most of the moisture condensates inside the tank itself because thats where all the heat is generated at,its worth a try anyhow...

I have a question that ive never seen here yet,why dont they make stainless steel tanks?..seems to me that would be the caddilac of tanks since no worries of them rusting out?.
John
12-17-2007 07:24 PM
58Apache
Repairs and upgrades

I bought a Campbell-Hausfeld single stage 60 gallon at Lowes several years ago. I put that thing to work hard many times over the years. It has lasted well, served well, and did everything I asked of it so far.

I have changed the oil in it twice now and mixed in some synthetic along with the compressor oil. Maybe that helped?

However, if and when the compressor part of it goes out, I think I'll look for replacement parts from Eaton. I wonder if I can convert it to a two-stage?

Now if I could figure out a reasonable priced way to reduce humidity. Dang mid-west humidity means I have to empty water out of the tank after a short time. I have one Sears in-line water filter, that MAY help SOME, but in no way does it get all of the water out of the line. Besides, I'd really like to stop it BEFORE it gets into the tank ....and no I don't want to spend big bucks on an A/C unit. This is a hobby.

Steve
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