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59 T-Bird Engine Swap??

12K views 27 replies 14 participants last post by  Flying Jester 
#1 ·
I need some advice on what I should do. My 59 Bird has the original 352 engine and trans. Should I rebuild it or put a 84 5.0 injected regular motor in it with the trans? The engine is complete with A/C and power steering. I also have a 350 Chevy that I could put in it. Should I keep it all ford? It's going to be a custom, so I don't care about originality. I've been a Chevy guy. I don't know much about Ford stuff.
 
#6 ·
Dale T. said:
Hi all, I picked up a 55 Fairlaine with a stuck 272 y-block. I want to stuff a 302 with an AOD trans in it. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Dale in Minn.
Hey Dale you hi jacked my thread. I want to hear more thoughts on my problem. I will stick with Ford in a Ford. How good is the 5.0 motor? Does it have as much power or more power that the 352?
 
#7 · (Edited)
STRODDER said:
I need some advice on what I should do. My 59 Bird has the original 352 engine and trans. Should I rebuild it or put a 84 5.0 injected regular motor in it with the trans? The engine is complete with A/C and power steering. I also have a 350 Chevy that I could put in it. Should I keep it all ford? It's going to be a custom, so I don't care about originality. I've been a Chevy guy. I don't know much about Ford stuff.
Living in California, you will have a legal problem if you bring the T-bird up to a modern engine. All emissions for the new engine will be required on the chassis and engine. That means fuel vapor recovery, legal exhaust with cats and exact pipe, the instrument panel will require a "Check Engine" light, etc. Then you'll have to ding/dong with the BAR and CARB. If you don't follow their rules and ever get caught, count on them making a poster child of you similar to Jessie James and his quarter of a million dollar fine and having to retrofit or park everything he built.

The best solution is to put in another FE or, and this was an option back then, an MEL 430 to its stretched version the 462. The 352 in the bird was always a dog, you can brighten up the performance and stay with an FE as it will look original with a 390/tamed 406/410 or 428. If you want bigger and retain a numbers matching block, the 59 352 has a lot of meat in it and can be bored easily to .125 or .130. With a 3.78 inch crank that puts 390 with a .05 overbore and 390 pistons and rods, or 406 with a .130 overbore using the 3.78 crank and rods. 410 can be had with a 3.98 inch 428 crank and a .05 overbore and 428 with a .130 overbore.

Frankly except for a suicide full out race motor I like to stay conservative on overbores and would go to a 4.05 bore which gives you the choice of 390 or 410 depending on crank selection. A .05 overbore on the 352 with stock crank will go to the Edsel 361 and a .130 overbore will take it to 374 inches. However, without a stroke increase these 352 growths don't add to bottom end grunt which the bird needs. Remember that Ford moves pin location in the piston and often the rod when stroking a motor so do research and ask questions.

The 59 automatic is the Borg-Warner 3 speed, it's not a very strong transmission, a late 60s C6 would be a better choice.

If you can score a Lincoln with a 430 or 462 and its tranny, this makes a powerful and economical cruiser out of the bird, finally mating enough engine to let that tank roll with ease.

A 350 Chevy would detract from the cars value and certainly has nothing to offer power or economy wise to over the 352 and friends. To really get into the torque the bird needs to cruise nice, you really need to take the SBC to 383, 400, 406 or more. That's as much cost and hassle as doing the 352 into something the car really needs.

Frankly, if it were mine I be shopping for a Lincoln to put in it. My father had one back in 1960, that thing would melt the Firestones right down to the rims. Plus you could run it from Berdoo to Vegas at a 100 + all day long without the slightest strain.

Bogie
 
#8 · (Edited)
If it were my car I would stay in the FE family, simply because the car is already setup for it and there is a good selection of speed parts available for it. On the flip side, the 5.0 has an even better selection of speed parts available, can be built cheaper in most cases, and is an easy candidate for FI, which would help reliability and overall drivability, BUT you may have to modify a few things to install the engine/tranny combo.

Now if this choice is simply between the 352 and the 5.0, I would say 5.0 all the way.

Edit: Given your location and the resulting issues with emissions testing, the 5.0 isn't an option. As usual, I'll defer to the more wizened among us in the ways of the fords of yore...
 
#9 ·
Thanks guys for your reply. There is no smog check in California for a 59. Even when you sell it. So that wouldn't be a problem putting a 5.0 in it. The 5.0 I have is in a 84 T-Bird that I bought. It has FI, A/C, and power steering on the motor. It has a serpentine belts on it to. The Trans will go in the 59 also. If I have to modify the floor I will. I don't want to go over board on the cost of the whole project. That's why I want to use what I have. Can a regular 5.0 be made into a 5.0 HO?

By the way I'm selling the 47 Studebaker Truck in my avatar
 
#11 ·
It might have. I got in Northridge California where it sat for 30 years. Almost no body rot. Only the floors have to be replaced. Once I get the body off, and blast all the paint off, then I'll really see what I have. Being a convertible I think it's worth spending money on it. I rather put money in the Bird than the Stude Truck.
 
#12 ·
STRODDER said:
Thanks guys for your reply. There is no smog check in California for a 59. Even when you sell it. So that wouldn't be a problem putting a 5.0 in it. The 5.0 I have is in a 84 T-Bird that I bought. It has FI, A/C, and power steering on the motor. It has a serpentine belts on it to. The Trans will go in the 59 also. If I have to modify the floor I will. I don't want to go over board on the cost of the whole project. That's why I want to use what I have. Can a regular 5.0 be made into a 5.0 HO?

By the way I'm selling the 47 Studebaker Truck in my avatar
I beg to differ, you need to be very careful here. What I said was, if you bring a modern engine into the 59 T-bird, you are now legally bound to bring all the modern engine and chassis emissions equipment into the car and have it emissions certified. this isn't me speaking this is the law in California. While engine and driveline changes are allowed under CARB regulations they state that the vehicle and its engine must comply with which ever is the more stringent regulation that for the year of the chassis or the year of the engine. So a modern engine also makes the vehicle subject to an annual emissions inspection. If you bring a modern emissions engine into the car and avoid the waltz with BAR and CARB to legalize the change, which you can do, and get caught, they are likely to make a poster child of you. This carries some pretty hefty fines. Given that there is a push by the green community to make all cars for all years suffer an inspection, going forward I think you need to plan for this eventuality. As knowing California pretty well, this is a question of when not if it's going to happen.

Keeping the bird's engine stock appearing may retain some chance of sneaking thru the new regulations when they hit. You can count that when Obama is president the greens where you live and elsewhere will push stiffer emissions regulation.

Bogie
 
#13 ·
I just looked at the California Smog Laws. Here's what I found.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/smog-check.php

I think the law you might be thinking of pertains to custom built cars. Like the hot rods that have fiberglass bodys, and an aftermarket frame. They fall under these laws. I'm not saying that your wrong. I want to know for sure what the law is. If thats true, then I will rebuild the 352. The California Smog Laws change by the minute. If you saw something different than I did, send me a link so I could check it out for my self. I had a Smog Lic here in So Cal from 1969 to 1990. I do try to keep up with the latest laws though. And I do hear ya about them changing laws for the 1975 and older cars.
 
#16 ·
Hey Strodder, sorry I hijacked your thread, I haven't figured out how to start a new thread yet. I thought if I put a different title on it, it would start a fresh one. How do I start a new thread?
Nice shop you have there, what size is it?
You do some nice work.
Thanks to all who answered my question.
Dale in Minn.
 
#17 ·
the 58-60 birds were my favorites. I have always wanted one. They are heavy ,with a huge eng compartment, my thoughts were for the 351 w because of the torque. that would move the car decently. I have a chevy van, same aprox wt as the bird,with a 305 and it is very anemic. the extra stroke of the 351 would offset that.
 
#19 ·
Stay FE

I built a super fast 58 352 back in the day. It was blowing headgaskets so had them milled .030. be sure the machine shop calculates and mills the intake side the correct amount or the manifold will not sit right and seep oil. I ran an Isky cam kit. 1,5 adj rockers. isky pushrods. dual valve springs double roller chain. lighten and polish the valves... Bored the block ,060 and balanced it, The spark plugs on the early machined combustion chambers leave sharp thread points. knock out the center of a spark plug and install it then use a die grinder to remove all the threads below the plug and sharp corners and blend with a rounded edge for good flame flow ...there is a little restriction around the exhaust valve on the high side smooth it and open it a little/// match the ports and remove a little on the exhaust to headers to open it too. If you are running the long 4 barrel ford carb there is usually casting die mismatch down thru it. polish the bores to get good airflow but don't do more than clean it up...with all this done you will need more initial advance you can braze the end of the advance slots then adjust them with a round file to have 2/3 the original travel timing can be set at 12 to 18 with the total at rpm about 38 depending on fuel used. I switched to 3 -2's, they are now on my T bucket............
retired Ford engineer
 
#21 ·
very fast

it would rev to 7200 rpm,, had it in a 58 rag top beat a lot of Gm and Mopars first an auto with the 4.11= 9 In ...then with a 37 cad stick shift. suspension loaded ..traction bars... headers 7 k rpm puts a lot of strain on everything, I now have a mustang gt 390 cam in a 9-1 truck block, 3-2's in the T bucket. I was building a house so I traded the long block with a 4 barrel manifold for some scaffolding. the guy put in a 64 merc and was amazed how fast the big merc was.
 
#22 ·
STRODDER said:
I need some advice on what I should do. My 59 Bird has the original 352 engine and trans. Should I rebuild it or put a 84 5.0 injected regular motor in it with the trans? The engine is complete with A/C and power steering. I also have a 350 Chevy that I could put in it. Should I keep it all ford? It's going to be a custom, so I don't care about originality. I've been a Chevy guy. I don't know much about Ford stuff.
Came across this post serching for parts and found it interresting. Newbie here.
I have a 59 t-bird also live in cali, and i fit a 460 in it. of coarse the 59 i got had a 401 nailhead in it so stock mounts were gone and got the engine and tranny cheap, don't have it complete but engine has been retro fitted.
 
#24 ·
California Smog Laws

To clear up a misunderstanding, California does not require a smog certificate on anything older then 1974. The only way DMV would find out about it is for you to tell them. As for swapping out motors, there are a few shops in So CAL who specialize in installing 4.6L motors in old hot rods. Quite a few of the emissions are disabled.

Back to the smog, can you imagine what the allowable emissions on a police interceptor 390 would have to be?
 
#26 ·
In cal.. they go by the year of the car...not by year of motor..drop in a updated motor,, get rid of all the emission crap,, and have fun.. I'm a chevy guy too,, but in a car like that,, i'd go ford all the way.. cobra motor, turbo small block,, blown small block..but nothing with a computer,, i think it would be out of place... just my 2 cents worth... :thumbup:
never mind .. hope you got a good price for the bird.
 
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