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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-04-2008 07:57 PM
Wadeamca I changed my mind on my reply. Doesn't matter and isn't going to change things, anyway.

I'm finding that even after retiring from the Air Force almost 15 years ago, I still have to push the "Old Sarge" back into the closet occasionally.

Wayne
03-04-2008 06:15 AM
woodz428 Unless the block was at the maximum, which I know can go 4" in most cases, I don't understand why it is JUNK.
Why didn't you have them bore one hole clean to see how far it needed to go?? From everything said so far it sounds like you were trying to make it work for a specific set of pistons and not to get it right. Unless they have some new instruments I am unaware of, any block that was as you described would need bored out to clear the rust and then bored to the needed oversize. It still sounds like you were aiming at a specific oversize. With the description you have given, I can't see the blame that the shop is getting. If it needed bored larger, they shouldn't have installed the cam bearings. However cam bearings are cheap and they could have removed them and continued boring until it was clean. This story is all one sided and I doubt that we are getting the complete story. I still don't see the blame here, what shop is it? I'd like to call them and get their side.
03-03-2008 07:53 PM
Wadeamca The guy I got this '62 283 from had it sitting outside for only-God-knows how long. He told me that he had this 283 sitting beside his house and I could have it - free- just come get it. When I got it home and took the heads off, there was lots of crud and what looked like calcium deposits on the inside of two cylinders (7 and 4, I believe). On the inside of the heads, in the intake valley, etc, etc, it looked like the oil hadn't been changed since the engine was originally built. But it was worth the price and I was hoping, but not really expecting that it could be rebuilt. So you win some - you lose some. How they say in the home-land, "Oh, well".
Anyway, there's a machine shop going out of the machining business here in Albuquerque. He's going to continue in the car repair business, but not machine work. So he's selling off the 'extra' blocks and cranks he has in the back that have already been bored and turned. I bought a '59 283 bored .040 for $90. He also had a crank already turned .020 mains and .030 rods for $25 (I sold two Powerglide transmissions yesterday for $125 - I only paid $40 for the pair) so that paid for this '59 block/crank. The original machine shop is going to take this block and hone it, install all freeze plugs and cam bearings, all at no charge. I lose the cost of the bore job on the '62 but it could have been much worse.
Btw - the '59 block has a dime-size chip on the bottom of the #8 cylinder wall on the inside - close to the cam. Will this cause any problems? Doesn't appear to be cracked.
I'll keep y'all posted on the outcome of everything as time goes on. Thanks for all the info, suggestions, and advice and support.
Wayne
03-03-2008 06:27 AM
redsdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergusonic
Have you determined if the rust is from the inside-out....that is ; Water Jacket rust bleeding thru?
Good question! I assumed the block had been exposed to the elements and the bores rusted. Take a peak at how rusted the jacket side of the cylinders are.

I am not sure that it 2008 this machine shop can be defended. But if this is an old school machine shop, this would have been a 30K grocery getter rebuild, back in the day. Perfectly OK for that use. NOT for a hi-po build. I think we all should go to the machine shop so we can convey what we're after with the build. I think going through a third party to get this done and not communicating directly contributed to the problem.
03-03-2008 06:22 AM
Wadeamca According to the guys who looked at the block Friday afternoon, the rust was on the inside of the cylinders - not coming through from the water jackets - and would destroy the rings in a very short time. The rust is not the machine shop's fault, obviously, block was cleaned and then inspected prior to boring. Then after seeing the rust pits on the inside of the cylinder walls boring each cylinder and still seeing the rust pits, they installed the cam bearings and freeze plugs instead of calling and telling us that the block was essentially trash. That's why I'm going to try to get a refund of all except the cost of boiling or vatting the block.

Wayne
03-03-2008 05:47 AM
Fergusonic Have you determined if the rust is from the inside-out....that is ; Water Jacket rust bleeding thru?
03-02-2008 08:07 PM
Wadeamca
"Freshly Bored" '62 283

This past Friday I took this block to work with me with the intention of taking off a couple hours early and going around to various machine shops to get their 2nd and 3rd opinions. I looked in the phone book and wrote down 6 different shops and headed over in that direction. I had no idea the name or location of the shop who did the job. I didn't find the first shop (somewhere on 3rd Street here in Albuquerque), but next door was a machine shop and I went in and asked the boss to come out and look at the block in the back of my truck. He saw the rust pits and said the block was trash. I asked if he would use it in a street rod he was building and he essentially said 'no way' - then he saw a sheet-metal shop's identification ring on the block. He looked at that ring and said, 'Hey wait a minute. This is one of our jobs - we're the only shop in town that puts that identification ring on the blocks. Is this a 283?...." and went back into their 'showroom'. He talked with another guy behind the counter and started back peddaling really fast. The other guy remembered the block and still wanted to tell me that this block with the rust pits "is still good, they couldn't bore it any larger, and that it shouldn't give any problems"...... I thought it was priceless that the first shop I stopped at just to get an opinion was the one that did the crappy work. I then went to three more shops and all said that the block should have been trashed before being bored and that no shop should have bored it and then put the cam bearings and freeze plugs in knowing the condition of the block. So, yesterday morning, I gave the block back to the "auto parts shop" that I initially dealt with and told the manager everything that went on the day before. I figure it's really their problem since I went to them for the work and they had to farm it out. I'll find out more tomorrow.

A couple months ago I purchased three Powerglide transmissions from a guy in town for $50 (for all three). I used one that was literally falling apart for a $10 core charge on a 700R4. Today I sold the other two for $125. Still trying to sell a 3.8L Ford V6 and a '57 283.

Again, thanks for all the advice, suggestions, and support.

Wayne
02-27-2008 08:55 AM
Wadeamca
"Freshly Bored" '62 283

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I'm taking a couple hours this Friday and take the block to various machine shops to get their inputs - since they will be able to eyeball the block. Then I'll be going back to the 'parts house' (I still don't want to name them unless they don't want to take responsibility for their 'subcontractor' - the machine shop's - work). They very well may, and then I'll give them all the public praise , otherwise they'll get all the public condemnation.

I'll keep y'all posted on the progress/outcome.

Thanks muches

Wayne
02-27-2008 07:06 AM
trees Don't know if they are still in business or not, but check for Knighton's Automotive Machine Shop at 221 Granite NW in Albuquerque. They did the machine work and balancing of my 383 and it is still superb. You may also look for a shop that could be listed as Todd's Racing, or some other form. He specializes in Building IMSA engines.

After all this, my attitude toward this block would be WHY???

Trees
02-26-2008 09:29 PM
woodz428 I don't think it's appropriate to put all the blame on the machine shop...those pits aren't his fault. Not knowing what machine was used, if it was a wet machine the pitting may not have been apparent until clean-up. Installing the cam bearings is another thing.Not having been privy to the dialog between customer and shop, I will pass on the judgement of the shop.Reality is that it is a 46 year old block and .060 would have been lucky to clean it up anyway. I can't determine from the pics, but I would probably pass on using it as it sets. Because of the blocks age another question comes to my mind...are those pits from the cooling jackets that were exposed?? If they are in the block now and they were external, the bores would have looked like crap to begin with. Pits that deep after a bore would have to have been HUGE before boring.I think a .060 overbore would have been very optimistic. Having worked as a machinist for too long, I have had customers bring in blocks they wanted bored to a set of pistons already owned. Usually it is a deal they got, many times they are used.If it took more to clean them up than the oversize of the piston set they had, they would take whatever product it was just to keep from buying another piston set. We would typically mike the cylinders and check with a taper gauge and bore the worst first, to determine how far it had to go. I think the chicken excrement comment applies here.
02-26-2008 08:16 PM
CNC BLOCKS NE We see blocks like that once and a while but not quite that bad and get with the customer before we bore the block and tell there could be some issues with pitting and most of the time its not a big issue.

The one in the pic is really bad, On that one I would tell my customer its hard to make chicken soup out of chicken s-hyt!!!!!!
02-26-2008 04:25 PM
techinspector1 Reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt's advice......
"Walk softly and carry a big stick"

In my experience, nothing beats a good piece of Hickory
02-26-2008 03:07 PM
sam-missle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadeamca
Part shop guy just called. He called several engine shops around Albuquerque and was told that, from what he described, there 'shouldn't be any problems'. I'm gonna load it into the back of my truck and take it to a couple shops to get their opinions first-hand before I go and do anything to it.

Wayne
as a machine shop owner, i advise you to take your engine back to the shop that did the work, tell them the work is unacceptale, they should never have continued with the work knowing the problems with the bores. and to install cam bearings in a junk block too. they wanted your money and they got it. now go get your money back.

sam-missle
02-26-2008 12:16 PM
302 Z28 "Shouldn't be any problem", yeah right That is some really shoddy work and I would not take it as gospel those bores are square either.

Vince
02-26-2008 11:54 AM
Wadeamca
"Freshly Bored" '62 283

Part shop guy just called. He called several engine shops around Albuquerque and was told that, from what he described, there 'shouldn't be any problems'. I'm gonna load it into the back of my truck and take it to a couple shops to get their opinions first-hand before I go and do anything to it.

Wayne
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