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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-17-2008 09:26 AM
DVierstra Vierstra: Veer-stra
04-17-2008 09:17 AM
Only Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVierstra
Thanks. I hope I was not ranting too much. It's just I run into this subject way too often.
Not a rant DV, just a proper observation, I administrated 10,000 users so I know what a rant is, lol.

BTW, I still don't know how to properly pronounce your name, if you culd help me out with the phonics
04-15-2008 02:27 PM
DVierstra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Only Racing
Yes it's great that you s a designer can come in here ansd talk as a business man and a person.

PS. that quote at the end is priceless !!
Thanks. I hope I was not ranting too much. It's just I run into this subject way too often.
04-15-2008 02:15 PM
Only Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVierstra
Great posts guys! That would be great if I can get the Mechanic to fix my car for $30 bucks!
Yes it's great that you s a designer can come in here ansd talk as a business man and a person.

PS. that quote at the end is priceless !!
04-15-2008 10:01 AM
DVierstra Great posts guys!

People in "general" do not put a value on our work because most of the time we do not. I did two wall murals with A LOT of detail. These murals were 8'x12 and 8'x10'. I charged $1,300 for both. Yes, they are my wife's daycare parents. I gave them a great deal! I spent over 60 hours over a four week period (in my spare time). People are still complimenting the work...two years later. I am very detail oriented and hate doing quick simple work (my flaw).

What's going to happen if they ever move? You guessed it. People that want it done ask how much and then their eyes get big. I have been doing this for years and I don't care if they don't like the price. I am still reasonable for my area (Orange County, CA). My first experience when I was 17. I painted an oil painting of a snow scene with a snow owl chasing a rabbit. The guy I painted it for asked me to not sign it and write it on the back. He later signed his name to it and told people he did it. That jaded me for a while.

I like to do things for people once in a while, but your time does = value.
Yes, it is something we enjoy, but our time is worth something.

If we do not put value on our work, most will not have regard or respect for the effort/work we put into it. Yes, it is work, but what we enjoy doing. Does that make it worth less? I don't think so and neither should anyone else.

That would be great if I can get the Mechanic to fix my car for $30 bucks!
04-15-2008 08:29 AM
Only Racing Job, going through that thread made alot of sense to me and would for you also. I'm in practice mode 95% of the time so I feel I'm learning. Though I could draw or render again like you have been doing, the results would be quite different as each day went on, yours tend to stay on the same course as in style which is good since they can know what to expect in a finished product. Most of yor stuff looks just like it was done with an illustration program for print IMO but done by hand which is very cool.

Some of the guys like DV and others that talked in that thread are big graphic designers and all the way down to a kid doing a favor, I see where guys like DV must be cringing at the thoughts of 10 or 30 bucks a logo when he's in a business as a designer. So many elements are included from schooling to your workstati0n that he most definately has to charge at least a minimal fee.

My friends have always offered something from a simple lunch at the track or in some cases money, but they are few and far between.

I look at "FREE" this way, if you make something that costs nothing, it's worth nothing in most peoples eyes. Much of what is being as a gift is also just something that could either be cherished or discarded depending on the person, seems a little bitter but I have done this myself.

I think I should have learned a lesson doing a favor for a sponsor of a race, who wanted a full front / back flyer contaning photos of all the top twenty racers, descriptions and custon backgrounds, I was on it for months preparing this only to find he did not follow through and even use this, it was very good IMO also. I think that was a turning pont for me personally as would be for anyone that feels a passion for art or illustration.
04-15-2008 12:27 AM
Job~Rated Mark, I think you've hit the nail on the head with regards as to how much to charge someone, friend or not.
I'm still having trouble putting a price on my work. I'll talk to one guy & say a price & they'll virtually bite my hand off, but I'll talk to another guy & I get a look that makes me feel like I just insulted his mother.
DViestra mentioned $60 per hour for quality detailed work.
I've charged some people the same amount for the finished piece - that works out about $12 - $15 per hour.
I know I haven't done myself any favours, but I enjoy the work I do (I hope it shows) & if I wanted some guy to draw my pride & joy, I wouldn't like to feel ripped off. I try and put myself in their shoes & think 'how much can I afford?/How much is it worth?'
Usually, I'll explain that they'll get to see the finished item before they pay, which almost anyone would agree is the right way to do it, but if they decide they don't like it, I'll be out of pocket.
I think I may have to raise my prices, but I feel I'll lose work by doing so.
04-14-2008 08:11 PM
Only Racing DV, I see well what he / she ? said. Many good points. I'm under the impression that I fall into the category as a "hack" which was mentioned in some of the posts. In a way I am, I've actually felt the hurt as a photographer and writer of the "I can do it cheaper or quicker" clan that has befallen our sport. Mainly Drag Racing in general.

Point and shooters aren't there to capture moments a frame at a time of someones accomplishments during that day and do it correctly as it is comparable to what is being talked about in the logo discussion.

I feel, had I listened closer to my partner we would be much better off when it came to sales. I now have over 9,000 in equipment just sitting since I resigned my position. Some really don't care about the quality or how it was used to make them appear larger than life on the internet.

Funny how all this got started with graphics, just a hobby and still is for me. I wouldn't want to be one of those that opens the door for lowballing like in the conversations in that topic.

Since I knew many of the racers I did signatures ( the small images below peoples names ) which some boards don't allow but many in the racing community use them for advertising their shops, never considering a cost factor, I'm talking hundreds of them BTW.

I think this is where I became "cheap" to ask for anything. I've rarely charged for a photo or artwork prior and this is still a freebie. I did spend quite some time goigback and forth with the person, whom is a friend, but in time spent; it was quite a bit.

I spent hours looking for images of playing cards until I realized I have a freakin camera and just cut them out and "tooned" them a bit. Each font was created by hand as an image, and that $1,600 Photoshop CS3 was in use plus my $3,500 box. I see where the logo guys are coming from.

I thank you for the comments about the work, it's an honor to hear it from someone of your stature BTW. I know what you do and the amount of programs and computer power it takes, which also costs money in your high end of work.

The original images were all done in 20X16 300DPI and resized as small as I could for the net. My goal is still just to express myself in this type of art form as often as I can.

Sincerely Mark
04-14-2008 09:25 AM
DVierstra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Only Racing
I honestly don't know what a logo wuld be worth, I did this as a favor for a friend that needed somethng for his car shows for a Full trailor decal in a wrap or sticker as some would call it, T Shirt, web header, signature, flyers and whatever else could be thought of. Kind of a quickie he didn't mind the busy, he wanted colorfull since the car is Blue with flames and alot of chrome. Nothing else was mentioned other than wanting his car slid in below it. I like it on the black background but he has the white copy he's going to use. Any thoughts on the value of this and all of its uses mentioned above, I'm not looking for business just an opinion, I know it's overdone also, lol.

For a piece as nice as that, Minimum would be $150.00. Seriously. Too many artists with the caliber of work that you show, sell themselves too cheap.
I judge by the time and detail. Minimum should be no lower than $60. per hour for "quality detailed" work. I know it was your friend and that is Okay.
But you can make some money at what you love. Most everyone will expect
cheap prices. I tell them to go buy some clip art and put it together themselves if they want it cheap.

I guess people expect it to be cheap because you are good at it and you love what you are doing. They may even think it is easy for you and you should do it for nothing. I get this often. My prices are very reasonable. Some see the value in it and some don't. All depends on their budget. I sometimes will work out a budgeted amount and give them what's within their budget.

Doing work for $20, $30 bucks (an hours work for example)...is desperation and it hurts all artists and devalues their craft, talent, and hard work.

Only Racing, the piece you posted I would expect $150 and no less.
Not sure if the Cards are clip art or if you drew them yourself. If you did, then
the price could go up a bit.

Sincerely,

DV

EDIT: The better you are the more you can charge and the demand for your work will only go up.
Read these posts: Graphic Forum please read Omengeorge post.

Hope this gives you better insight.
04-14-2008 08:13 AM
Only Racing I honestly don't know what a logo wuld be worth, I did this as a favor for a friend that needed somethng for his car shows for a Full trailor decal in a wrap or sticker as some would call it, T Shirt, web header, signature, flyers and whatever else could be thought of. Kind of a quickie he didn't mind the busy, he wanted colorfull since the car is Blue with flames and alot of chrome. Nothing else was mentioned other than wanting his car slid in below it. I like it on the black background but he has the white copy he's going to use. Any thoughts on the value of this and all of its uses mentioned above, I'm not looking for business just an opinion, I know it's overdone also, lol.

04-09-2008 08:56 PM
Only Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVierstra
Shane,

It all depends on creativity and years of experience to give you exactly what you are looking for. 79C10 is on the mark. I have beat this subject about art, logos and such to death on this forum.

Most people may disagree...you get what you pay for.

I agree with that DVierstra, (please if you will tell me how to pronouce that name!!). I did do almost anything for free and turned out some decent stuff over the years mainly as a writer and photographer. Now I'm playing with graphics and I am no where near the level so many are now, it's amazing the work some guys can do. But you do have to sit down and do a design. Logo seems so miniscule in nature of words. One properly designed can be multi purpose for almost anything.

lowROLLERchevy has his hands full, almost anything would work but since it's so wide open from a T Bucket to a Taurus, it's hard to explain on a message board.
04-08-2008 12:54 PM
DVierstra Shane,

It all depends on creativity and years of experience to give you exactly what you are looking for. 79C10 is on the mark. I have beat this subject about art, logos and such to death on this forum.

Most people may disagree...you get what you pay for.
04-07-2008 08:15 PM
RODDER18 I like this one. It looks good in B & W as 79C10 said. It also looks good on the door of an old chev p/u.
04-05-2008 01:44 PM
lowROLLERchevy i like the t bucket idea, but RPM already uses something similar

04-05-2008 01:38 PM
Job~Rated Well, seeing as this is a Hot Rod forum, I thought I'd toy with that idea...

It's a 'work in progress', but let me know what you think...

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