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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-25-2008 10:09 AM
briscoe
2004r

You can attract a lot more bees with honey than with vinegar!

Bnesom, you are entitled to your opinion, however general concensus would suggest that hardhatz's comments were indeed inflammatory. Rearead post # 10 and #12.

However, I have found that discussing issues on a forum are a little different than doing it face to face, or even over the phone.

Lot's of room for misinterpretation.

Still, hardhatz has posted on this site at least 69 times and unless this is his first time on the trans forum he must have some idea of the wealth of knowledge that Crosley possesses. And freely shares with people that post on this forum.

But because no one could present hardhatz with a magic wand to fix his problem he got a little tweaked.

Hopefully enough information passed across this thread so that hardhatz can get his problem squared away.

By the way, my transmission work's just fine.
04-25-2008 07:34 AM
Crosley Guess I should have posted that most Q-jet carbs linkage does not have the correct geometry for a 200-4r trans TV cable.



bnewsom:

I will disagree , where hardhatz is posting comments towards the general members here that may be taken negatively .

It is easy to read negative thoughts into a post as his post below:

Quote:
I guess I thought I could find good guys who want to help each other benefit from their experiences. Sorry, my mistake. I wouldn't have treated any of you like that.
After his first post back to me , I decided to sit back and simply be a moderator as my duties require on this board.

he has received several helpful answers. I hope he can fix his car as needed.

It has been my past 3+ decades of auto experience that often junk yard trannys and engines do not always perform as expected. Late model - low mileage take outs are different from finding an old 200-4r trans in the junk yard.

Last item; bnesom it would helpful if you did not post in one looong continuous paragraph. That can make for difficult reading on the boards.

04-24-2008 11:55 PM
973kgt I had the same problems with mine. It came in my caprice. I since had removed the 305 and put in a mild 350 and went from 2.73 gear to 3.90

I installed a bowtie overdrives TV ratio correction kit for the carb I had and also installed a shift kit. It shifted firmer but still early. I swapped in a bowtie overdrives 5500rpm shift governor and that solved the problem. Then I installed the 500 boost valve and it seemed to grab a **** ton better. It will shift normal under normal driving conditions and shift at approx 5300-5500rpm at WOT. Made the car a lot faster and more enjoyable. You can do all the mods yourself. I did it and I never worked on a transmission before. I also ditched the stock converter and had a custom built one and it made all the difference.
04-24-2008 11:18 PM
bnewsom Hardhatz,
I reread this thread and can't find the part where you were disrespectful to anyone so don't worry about it. I also can't find where "you are surprised" that your junkyard tranny isn't performing like you want it to. All I read is you asking for some suggestions to solve a problem and answering about what you had done. I did see where someone told you q-jets are not used with this tranny and this is not true. I'm using tv cable bracket off a later model qjet on my mid 70's qjet. Too bad post counts don't always equal IQ surely don't give anybody the right to dog another. On all but Buick GN's and Monte Carlo SS's and maybe another car or two, this tranny was calibrated for low torque engines and gave a soft and slow shift at low rpms. You can recalibrate it with a shift kit, a govenor change and a servo change. Just doing this will fix the shifts assuming it is otherwise healthy but it still won't live too long if you are hard on it without making some hard parts upgrades. One thing you can try before doing all this is set the TV cable per repair manual instructions, then with the engine off, fully depress and quickly release the throttle. Do this about ten times quickly and then retest. Repeat this a few times and you may get lucky. Idea is there may be some trash hanging up the valve. Also follow this link and spend some time in this forum http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/transmission-talk/ and then ask some questions and these guys will give you some help.
Good Luck,
Bob
04-23-2008 09:45 PM
hardhatz I'm insolent and have life-long morality failings because I grasp TV cable function?...

I guess I thought I could find good guys who want to help each other benefit from their experiences. Sorry, my mistake. I wouldn't have treated any of you like that.
04-22-2008 11:04 AM
briscoe
2004r

I will reiterate, you will have to correct your tv geometry.

That would be, first things first.

Now, don't apologize for being on a tight budget, these are tight times.

You instead may want to apologize for being insolent, to people that are trying to help you and for not being sapient enough to realize it.

However, this is an issue of morality and while we may only have to deal with it now, you will have to deal with it the rest of your life.

Now, as for your transmission concern. Your dealing with a trans you know little about, relative to it's history, so that does create some problems.

Do you have access to, or own a pressure gauge?

Short of removing parts, like the valve body and governor, from this transmission, the results from a pressure reading may be the best way to determine what's going on with this unit.

Then, you may still have to remove parts, comes with the territory, when you have to buy a junk yard transmission.
04-22-2008 09:33 AM
hardhatz M rear end is a 3.08.
My engine is a basic 350, and I don't race it.
The trans came from a Caprice with a V8 & Q-Jet. I do not know the size.
The Q-Jet base I am using came from this car, as did the TV cable. Whether this provides adequate travel for my application, I do not know, but it seems within normal bounds.

Sorry if I offended any experts by buying from a wrecking yard.. I'm on a tight budget.

I'd be happy if it went to 4200, Its doing about half that. If the TV cable is set "properly", it will shift even sooner... 1,2,3 very quickly, (on the converter) with a neutral between 1st & 2nd.

Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd by shift lever results in a 4 second delay, regardless of TV setting.
Downshifting into 2nd via throttle is not practical, as it results in a very large neutral, and probably will be burning things.

As currently set up, I have driven the car about 3000 miles. Most of it freeway, about half of it towing. Other than the considerable inconvenience of having to manually select gears when using more than a light throttle, too-soft shifts, and not having full throttle travel, there has been no problem.
04-22-2008 03:11 AM
curtis73 You won't get far insulting the guru of gurus. Crosley is an expert.

You have chosen a junkyard tranny. That should be your first clue. Secondly, 90% of the 200-4r trannys out there are designed and calibrated to operate in vehicles that redline at 4200 with rear ratios in the 2.73:1 range. Simply droping one of these into a performance vehicle is equivalent to taking an F1 race engine and putting it in a pickup truck, then expecting it to be competent at towing 10,000 lbs.

200-4rs are known for their early shifts. They were installed behind Olds 307 engines that struggled to make 140 hp and redlined at 4200. Simply installing one behind a performance engine and expecting it to work in its stock configuration is pretty riduculous.

What you're experiencing are not "symptoms" they are merely the transmission operating properly. You've just made a piss-poor decision, so don't take it out on us.
04-22-2008 12:12 AM
hardhatz OK... I guess what I'm looking for is someone more gifted in the workings of a 200R4's than in telling me how dumb I am..

Is there anybody out there willing to discuss actual mechanical problems with 200R4s that have a history of causing these symptoms?
04-21-2008 10:54 PM
Crosley
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardhatz
I actually have a pretty good grasp on how to set up a TV cable, that's not my problem. I have done quite a few swaps that entail TV cables.
I only mentioned the TV to demonstrate that I have tried all that, and tried to use different settings to uncover the issue.

You demonstrated that you have a Q-jet carb... The Q-jet linkage geometry is not correct for the TV cable.

You installed a trans from a junk yard and are surprised it does not operate properly? With no history of the trans , it may be stock or a DIY worked on it that may caused the erratic shifting.

What is your rear end gear ratio? IF it is a 3.73 or 4.10 gear , it may be spinning the governor too quickly , causing the early shifts if the trans came out of a car with 2.73 gear.

04-21-2008 10:32 PM
hardhatz I actually have a pretty good grasp on how to set up a TV cable, that's not my problem. I have done quite a few swaps that entail TV cables.
I only mentioned the TV to demonstrate that I have tried all that, and tried to use different settings to uncover the issue.
04-21-2008 04:46 PM
fordSR The geometry on the TV cable is the most important issue with this transmission for proper shifting as well as the longevity of the unit. The cable has a required length of travel from idle to full throttle. The linkage on your carburetor which controls the TV cable must have the stroke to accomplish this. Bowtie Overdrive has a link on their website that describes what this stroke-length should be and how to properly set up the TV cable. The only other possible cause I can think of would be the governor, but I think that's only a remote possibility. When you Pick-a-Part you take your chances, IMO

Jim
04-21-2008 03:45 PM
hardhatz
Quote:
Originally Posted by briscoe
Because this unit is a "used trans", some interesting intangibles come into play.

Questions like, how did it work before you installed it into your vehicle, what was the fluid condition, are there any valves in the valve body, such as mtv up or tv valve itself sticking, which will create this problem.

Most early upshifts, in a known good working transmission, will be because of incorrect tv cable adjustment.

When adjusting the cable makes no difference in the upshift pattern one starts to consider if one may have a control issue with the unit, such as sticking valves.

Your tv cable geometry is more than likely a concern, as well, which can also add to your problem, if in fact not be the cause of the problem.

There is a link on this site that explains not only the importance of this geometry, but how to correct it as well.
It came from Pick-a-Part, and was very clean inside.

I used a Q-jet base with the lug that matches the cable end, but I'm not sure about the travel. However, in order to work properly in normal driving, it needs to be quite tight. Setting it looser makes the problem worse. Presently, the TV is at the end of its travel just as the secondaries start to open.

Also, the problem is much more noticeable into 2nd gear. The other gears apply fairly well.
04-21-2008 03:10 PM
briscoe
2004r

Because this unit is a "used trans", some interesting intangibles come into play.

Questions like, how did it work before you installed it into your vehicle, what was the fluid condition, are there any valves in the valve body, such as mtv up or tv valve itself sticking, which will create this problem.

Most early upshifts, in a known good working transmission, will be because of incorrect tv cable adjustment.

When adjusting the cable makes no difference in the upshift pattern one starts to consider if one may have a control issue with the unit, such as sticking valves.

Your tv cable geometry is more than likely a concern, as well, which can also add to your problem, if in fact not be the cause of the problem.

There is a link on this site that explains not only the importance of this geometry, but how to correct it as well.
04-21-2008 11:19 AM
hardhatz
200r4 Help!!!

There must be a few wise ones out there who know what's wrong....
Is it a good idea to try a shift kit?
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