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Old 04-26-2005, 09:28 PM
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No power to solenoid when ya try to start it

Anyway the other night I was driving my 94 Shadow to my girlfreinds house.I stop for gas shut it off.Then when I go to start it back up I hear a faint click at the starter then nothing.
I check the terminals nothing,it has bright lights and the guage reads 12V.I Jam it in Park then try Neutral thinking neutral safty switch,NO.I try all the electrical devices(heater,lights etc...)to see if maybe a fusebale link went,but everything works.
So I get it towed.
When we check it out,when ya turn the key to start,we could hear the starter relay clicking,so we tryed to jump accross it to the solenoid no go.So we take a shot at the relay and go to the junkyard for a starter relay.Still No go.
So I pay a freind(cause I ain't changing a starter on this cramped monster)who pulls the starter.We jump it and its dead,it sparks when ya jump from the main lug to the solenoid.We replace it with a new one and still nothing when ya turn the key.
The starter was definetly bad,but I'm thinkin the solenoid shorted to ground and took something with it.
Right now I have a bump switch from the battery to the solenoid so I can get it to work in the morning.
How do I trouble shoot this.Is there a fusable link to the starter on these??
HELP please.
I don't want to rely on a peace of lamp cord and a switch run allong my door jam.

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Last edited by 78 monte; 04-26-2005 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:49 AM
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Starter

Doc here,

Does the solenoid "Click" Now when you hit the key? I'm assuming it does not. You weren't clear on what it does now...

The First line of troubleshoot would be remove the SOLENOID Energize line and hook a meter up to it, Have someone turn the key to "start" and monitor the voltage..should be 12 volts every time...

If not, you may have to hand over hand the wire and look for burned or broken spots along the wire.

If the wire is good, then you need to look at the ignition switch...The start function may be burned out.

There is no other fusible link other then the main one at the starter that would effect this..(That I'm aware of) and if that link were bad the rest of the electrical would be out also.

Most likely the solenoid threw a large current dump on the start circuit with the old shorted starter, and opened up something in that circuit (wire or switch)

The fact that it works with a remote start eliminates the cables and connections and fusible link...So all that's left is the Solenoid energize line and the switch..

Of course if It does not "Click" when you hit the key, you need now to also look at the Neutral safety and clutch over ride switches...(they could have gone out while testing or jumping the bad starter)

Doc
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:24 AM
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The new starter is dead as a doornail when ya turn the key.
I hooked a switch up,running a wire from the battery positive to the bump switch,then from the switch to the solenoid wire,on the plug at the relay(relay is now unplugged).That works but its a cob-job and grinds the starter if ya hold it to long.
So anyway I tested both sides of every fuseable link in the car and all light up my test light.
Also I tested at the starter relay plug,the starter relay has four poles on it.
One goes to the starter solenoid,which is good as it works w/ the cobbed switch wired to it.
Another wire which is steady hot.Another which becomes hot when the key is in start position.(relay actuater)
The last wire is dead no matter what(key on/off/start position)And I also tested from positive on battery to this wire to see if it were a ground and nothing.
So in my figuring the problem lies in the relay no being able to close.As it has power to it and a good line from it to the solenoid.
Does the last wire go through the neutral safty switch??

Last edited by 78 monte; 04-27-2005 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-27-2005, 04:42 PM
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relay

Doc here,

Does the relay click when you hit the key? If so the Control circuit is fine..your contacts may be burned open inside the relay...If it clicks but doesn't energize the starter.

If it won't click, then the control circuit or relay coil is bad...either way get a new relay and try again. Obviously the signals are present at the relay plug..so it would seem they aren't making it through the relay.

Does this car have a VATS system...If so you may need reprogramming.

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Old 04-27-2005, 06:54 PM
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Sounds like a ground problem to me. Either the relay has lost its ground, or the engine negative cable has a poor ground.

I don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, but from what you were saying about the 4th wire that has no power, that sounds like it could be the relay ground. Does that wire have continuity to ground? Any resistence to ground?
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Old 04-27-2005, 09:14 PM
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Doc,
The relay was clicking now I don't hear it from neither the new(junkyard)relay or the original one.
New relays are $43 so @ $2ea I'm think I better pickup maybe like 3 from the junk yard ones bound to be good.
VATS system??
curly,
I tested from positive on the battery to it and no light on my test light.I'm thinkin maybe it grounds through the neutral safty switch.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:20 AM
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VATS is vehicle anti theft system I believe.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:40 PM
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Nah no vats,bins,pots,pans,lugs,bowls or jugs here.
Anyway,thanks to the help of someone at dodgetalk.com I fingered it out.They told me that that wire went to the neutral safty switch and were the switch was.I grounded that wire at the relay and it fired right up.So now when I get the car back tommarrow I can try a neutral safty switch.Its either that or the wire to it.
Thanks guys for helping me out.12V Electrical is hard for me for some reason unless I have a schematic.I don't know car systems worth a crap.
Now one question.How could the starter have blown the safty switch??The switch is part of the relay close circuit and not the load circuit that powers the starter??If the starter shorted to ground it woulda burned up either the feed or the solenoid wire.But how the path to ground for the relay actuator??
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:51 AM
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Relay

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly5759
I don't have a wiring diagram in front of me, but from what you were saying about the 4th wire that has no power, that sounds like it could be the relay ground. Does that wire have continuity to ground? Any resistence to ground?

Doc here,

Great! Glad to hear it's localized..Sounds like Curly hit the nail on the head too..Good call!

As far as the switch going out..anything is possible, when your dealing with shorted componets...electrons seem to take on a life of their own..

Doc
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