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Old 09-06-2012, 12:40 AM
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no timing pointer

I have a '71 302 Ford engine in a '35 MBZ kitcar. Whoever owned the car before me modified the cover over the crank pulley and removed the timing pointer. This has not been a problem to date because I can time the engine somewhat, using my "ear" and tach for idle rpms and other signs such as quick rpm throttle response and immediate engine start-up, etc. In any case, the lack of a timing pointer has not crated any difficulty in tuning the engine.

However, I just converted the car from an automatic to a manual T5 trans and am going to upgrade to a more radical cam / lifters / springs, etc., so now I will have to find TDC for the upgrade installations and may as well mark the pointer on the cover for proper timing accuracy, etc.

My question: To find TDC do I feel for compression (or get it close by cycling the engine so that the rotor points to #1 plug wire on the distributor cap) for #1 cylinder, then watch the exhaust valve cycle through, then make my mark above the crank pulley just as the intake valve starts to activate, or do I make my pointer mark when the exhaust valve comes "up" but just before the intake valve goes "down"? I will have to line up the cam and crankshaft pulleys to change the timing chain anyway, but stince normally the engine should already be at or very close to TDC before I get to the stage of pulling the timing chain cover, I think I should make my pointer mark on the cover before I even pull my distributor.

Any suggestions? I guess I could also just go out and see if I can find a used cover that has the pointer already "installed", but frankly, I don't even know what the original cover / pointer look like since I have no reference and am not sure that I could even locate a used cover / pointer.

Thanks for your help. I am sure you experienced pros out there can give me some advice on how to go about re-creating my timing pointer.

Mahalo.

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Old 09-06-2012, 01:45 AM
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ball up some paper nice size to plug spark plug hole on number #1 plug don't make it small to where it can fall in you want a nice fit then bump the motor over till you hear the paper shoot out it will make a pop sound then take a flat head put black tape on tip so you don't scratch walls or piston then turn by hand and the flat head will damn near fall out when you TDC
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:57 AM
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Click on this link and look at the balancer in the picture KMJ Performance :: Engines & Components :: Balancers & Dampers :: 6.4" SB Ford Harmonic Balancer Damper 28.4 oz SBF you will notice several timing marks on it, why you say? Over the years Ford changed the location of timing pointers as Chevy also did with the SBC primarily because of add on accessories being relocated.The balancer in the picture has all 3 markings (It is what I used) EZ solution with your early 302 is this:TIMING POINTERS, 1968-1973*::*Timing Chains & Covers*::*Engine & Components*::*Mustang Parts & Accessories Superstore - 1800Mustang
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:46 AM
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I had the same problem of finding the right pointer for my 302 block (347)
so i found a good method somewhere on the net that had me bolt a plate over the deck of the block with a " stop bolt and lock nut" welded in the centre of the plate. The idea of this is to get hold of a degree wheel, bolt it to the front of the balancer and then turn the crank over slowly by hand until the piston is stopped just before TDC by the protruding bolt into the cylinder. Make a temp pointer from stiff wire and fix it near where the Ford TDC pointer would be. Mark the degrees wheel at this point with a marker pen, then reverse the crank until the piston comes up again and stops. Mark the degrees wheel again. The difference between these two marks on the degrees wheel is exactly TDC.
I made a pointer from a pin and piece of brass to show exactly where TDC is.
This is easy with the head off, with the head on, you need a gauge down the plug hole to find TDC.
Al.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:00 PM
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no timing pointer

Thanks very much to all three who answered my question. Now I know how to solve the problem. I really appreciate it. Sorry I don't know how to thank all of you individually, I'm new at this.
Mahalo.
Jugger
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:42 PM
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I just fabbed a timing tab for my pontiac.

I'm assuming you'll pull the heads? If so use a normal positive stop. If not, go to summit or jegs and search for "spark plug stop" and you'll get plenty of choices for around 10$ or less. Use one of these as a positive stop and a degree wheel to very precisely find TDC.

You'd want to degree that new cam right? or at least do a split overlap check. when you're doing that go ahead and make your timing tab and put a mark at 0 deg.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:02 PM
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Determining top dead center

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center

Ford firing orders:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._firing_orders
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:34 PM
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Timning pointer

CaptainCaveman: Thanks for the reply. I rotated the engine about 10 times (with the heads on) using several methods described by other members, and found TDC , then pulled the heads and cam, etc. Since the distibutor was lined up, the cam and crank sprockets were lined up, and the piston physically at TDC, I am sure that I am pretty close to the correct position to fabricate my timing pointer. I won't be degreeing my camshaft but should be able to get everything lined up for the cam installation. Assuming that I can advance the distibutor enough to properly time the engine, I think it should be okay; if not, then I guess I will have to degree the cam. Can you give me a summary of the "overlap" process? I am not familiar with it. Thanks much for your help.
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:49 PM
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cool! i'd say you've probably got TDC close enough. I made the mistake of buttoning up the whole engine before I noticed my timing tab wasn't going to work, and I'd already turned it over dozens of time so I had to use a spark plug type positive stop and a degree wheel to find mine. It's so much easier without the heads on for sure.

Split overlap is part of degreeing the cam... and if you have a cam card you may as well just degree it in my opinion. sounds odd... but i have a custom grind cam... and i'm not 100% certain what the specs are so I did a split overlap to ensure the cam was installed at the proper position. I did have that much info.

CAM DIAL-IN

once I got that process down, I read through this which is an awesome source of info btw:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...otor_assembled

that's pretty much what I did. You really need the engine to be as stable as possible to degree the cam. I fabbed some legs out of angle iron to help support all 4 corners of the block, even though it was on an engine stand. It was too bouncy as it was. That stand also later broke...
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCaveman View Post
once I got that process down, I read through this which is an awesome source of info btw:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...otor_assembled
That page was mostly the work of techinspector1. Damn shame he's no longer here. If he was, I'm sure he would thank you.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:45 PM
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timing pointer

Caveman: Thanks for the links. That is pretty amazing stuff. I guess if you're a technical engineer and have all this knowledge cooped up in your head, there has to be some outlet for it when one is sitting around with nothing to do...... :-) In any case, thank goodness there are technicians with so much knowledge who can merge theory and practical application. Unbelievable information, to a layman like myself.

For my purposes, this is probably more information than I need since I have a street machine, but it is still very helpful and in fact, I have a Corvette and a '31 Ford that both were bought with aftermarket cams installed and I have often wondered what the timing and specs really were.

A great big Mahalo for your help.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
That page was mostly the work of techinspector1. Damn shame he's no longer here. If he was, I'm sure he would thank you.
yea, I miss techinspector1 mug shot popping up with all the good advice he gave. He helped me out on my 454 block when I had all different measurements from the top of the pistons to the top of the block. I pulled everything back apart and took it to the machine shop to have it decked. It also made getting my quench easier. I saw him posting on club hotrod and sent him a PM thanking him but didn't get an answer back. He may not have remembered me.
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